Original interview from WEBザテレビジョン published on April 1st 2023, titled: “<Tengoku Daimakyou> Director Hirotaka Mori, ‘the anime’s responsibility’ is to make the appeal of the original work live on and to convey it without distortions“, original interviewer: Rum; genga by Shuuto Enomoto.
— Please, tell us how you felt when you were asked to direct this show.
At first, I was worried whether or not I was fit for the position. However, I’ve known animation producer (Masafumi) Oohira-kun (from Production I.G.) for a long time, ever since I started directing episodes, and so I thought that together with him I could have done it.
— The anime PV, and also the social media pages, are full with positive comments sent from the fans who are anticipating the show.
I’m getting really nervous. All the expectations have strongly made me even more determined to create something of proper quality, and I hope I can live up to everyone’s expectations.
~ I payed special attention to the action scenes. ~
— Please, tell us about the appeal and charm of the original work.
The first time I read it, I was struck by how mysterious and strange it was. Although Maru and Kiruko’s “Makyo” [“Makyō” (魔境) literally means “the realm of demons”, it’s used in Zen meditation to refer to a kind of self-delusion resulting from an individual’s clinging to an experience; Director Moriis using it here referencing the manga’s original title “Tengoku Daimakyou” (天国大魔境) to denote the separation between Tokio’s storyline and Maru and Kiruko’s storyline, one being the “Tengoku” (Heaven) side, and the other the “(Dai) Makyō” side of the story] side and Tokio and the others’ “Heaven” side are two clearly separated settings, they both coexist in one work without feeling out of place. When you read one side of the story, you get more curious about the other. I think it’s amazing how despite the many elements that include foreshadowings, everything fits perfectly without any contradiction in one single work. You’re always curious of what will come next and want to keep reading more and more.
— Which aspects did you pay particular attention to when adapting the original work into anime?
First of all, I’d say the action scenes. I believe that by adding sound and movement they stand out even more, and that’s why there’s a point in making it into animation. So, I wanted to put my effort into it. Also, since a manga is fundamentally in black and white, I wanted to depict the ruined landscapes and the school facility, basically the world where they [the characters] live in, in an even more appealing way by adding color to them.
— Each character that appears in this work has their own distinct personality. What kind of people do you perceive Maru, Kiruko and Tokio, the three main characters, as?
About Maru, I think he’s really pure and I feel like he doesn’t really know anything yet. He being comfortable and lighthearted is what makes his character appealing. I have the impression that, unaware of his past, meeting Kiruko he gradually developed a sense of self, and I wonder what would have happened to him if he’d never met Kiruko. I guess he would have just lived his daily life without ever experiencing any emotion.
On the other hand, Kiruko’s circumstances are very complicated, with a past too heavy to bear alone; so I believe Kiruko too, if not for meeting Maru, would have ultimately been crushed. It’s impossible to narrate these two characters separately, ignoring either one of the two. I think their relationship is mutually complementary.
And, as for Tokio, she’s a purely adolescent character. Her purity is different from Maru’s; I feel like Maru, despite having experienced some pretty tough things, still retained his purity, whereas Tokio didn’t experience any pressure from the outside to begin with. I think her character represents the various interests and aversions that arise during adolescence.
— By the way, who is your favorite character, director Mori?
Personally, I like characters with a strong personality like the Academy’s Director and Juichi, whom Maru and Kiruko meet, simply because they’re fun to work with. However, I believe a lot of people like Mimihime; she feels like a heroine more than anyone else, and I feel like she’s loved.
~ I was inspired to become a creator by a university senior. ~
— What is it that made you pursue your current career? Please, tell us if there’s any work or creator that has inspired you.
Well, the reason was that the director of “Times of Eve” [“Eve no Jikan” (イヴの時間), 2008], Yasuhiro Yoshiura happened to be my senior at university. It’s not like we were actually in contact with each other, but I thought it was impressive that an individual could create something like that, so it might have been at that time that I started to think actually making it into my job.
— Well then, is there any message you want to convey to the viewers through this work?
I believe the message (Masakazu) Ishiguro-sensei wanted to convey is already contained in the original work, and there’s nothing the (anime) production team has added to it, but this work really goes over plenty of topics, like calamities, technology, gender, and can be viewed from many different standpoints. I hope that, out of all these scattered elements, each of viewers will be able to pick one out and choose how to enjoy it themself, and I also believe this work has the capacity to allow that.Therefore, I believe that to convey all that without distorting it too much is my responsibility in making this anime.
— Lastly, please tell us what to look forward to in the early part of the show.
As some foreshadowing is being set up from the first episode, I’d be happy if people could watch the show from various perspectives, like being interested in and curious about the mystery, or enjoying the storyline of Maru and Kiruko exploring the ruins, or many more. From the production-side of things, the first episode was the most difficult one to make. Since it’s the introduction to the story, I made it with the hope that people would fall in love with the world and the characters and would be intrigued to see what happens next.
From episode 2 onwards, there will be action scenes and the story will move forward, so I believe each episode will provide easy to follow standouts. All of the staff has been working hard to make a show that won’t fall short of the expectations and that the viewers will be able to enjoy, so I really appreciate your support.
For quite some time now I’ve had in the back of my mind the idea of a bigger, more substantial project (by my standards, that is), involving both translation work and writing in some capacity. Something that I have access to a large (or perhaps the largest available) amount of content of, and I’m both passionate and decently knowledgable about, would be what possibly is one of the most ambitious entries in a massive and massively influential franchise: the 1988 movie Mobile Suit Gundam: Char’s Counterattack.
I’ve already covered one long interview with director Yoshiyuki Tomino about CCA last year, even before actually getting started with this blog altogether (being one of my earliest translation works when it comes to interviews, it’s definitely not perfect and I should find the time to review it from start to finish someday). My goal with this article is to make use of all the knowledge I put together around this movie, be it through countless rewatches or thorough research, to translate and comment on the various production materials and notes collected in the Mobile Suit Gundam: Char’s Counterattack Complete Collection of Official Records ―BEYOND THE TIME―, specifically the “Making of” chapter, that I hold dear on my Gundam themed shelf.
For the structure of this write-up, I followed the same order in which the production material is arranged in the original book, thus dividing this article in four main sections:Mechanical Design,Character Design, Other Designs and Background Art. Lastly, a short Notes section at the end features the content included in the last few pages of the chapter. The scope of this project is not a broader look at the production of Char’s Counterattack as a whole, but rather a narrower look into very specific parts and aspects of it.
(The production material showcased in this article is only part of what’s included in the book, and not all of it for obvious copyright reasons. However, the comments and notes, or at least the most relevant ones, have all been translated and are directly quoted or integrated in each corresponding section).
Mechanical Design
This section features various drafts of the mechanical design works, along with commentaries by their respective artists, starting with the early drafts by Mamoru Nagano, who was originally appointed as the main mecha designer for the movie, then moving to Yutaka Izubuchi, who took over after Nagano was taken off the project. Additional commentary on the development of the mecha design by producer Kenji Uchida and Sunrise Planning and Viscial Design team members Kouichi Inoue, Nobushiki Tsukada and Shigeru Horiguchi is also featured throughout this section.
My intent is to present all this as one organic sequence, just occasionally quoting the commentaries directly, and instead incorporating them within the reconstruction of the working process. To keep things in order, this section is divided in sub-sections, each dedicated to a specific artist and his respective designs. The reconstruction tries to follow a chronological order based on the information included in the Official RecordsCollection itself, as well as in some other sources that I’ve listed at the end of the article.
Mamoru Nagano
Hi-S Gundam (and the E.F.S.F. Mobile Suits)
In a similar fashion to the original book, this reconstruction starts off with the very first design for the then-called “Hi-S Gundam“, likely named so after the title of a concurrent (at the time) project, the 1987 novel Mobile Suit Gundam High-Streamer, by the initial main mecha designer, Mamoru Nagano.
Nagano‘s involvement with Gundam is a rather intricate one; he originally widely contributed to the designs for Mobile Suit Z Gundam, and then stepped down around the end of 1984, just a few months before the first half of Zeta started to broadcast, likely due to the mixed (internal) reactions his work got, considering the heavily commercial context of TV mecha design of the time. Possibly around the spring of 1985, producer Kenji Uchida reached out to Nagano again, with the intention to bring him back in the production to design the “main robot” for the second half of the show. Consequentially to his return on Zeta, director Yoshiyuki Tomino asked Nagano directly to work as the main mecha designer on Gundam again, this time for the “next entry”, that would later be titled Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ. And so, by November of 1985, Nagano was already working on the rough designs for the ZZ and the new Zeon Mobile Suits, but despite initially getting the green light from the sponsors, he was fired right before the production began in December of the same year. As a result, Nagano distanced himself from Sunrise and Gundam for some time; not too long though, since in late 1986, following a request by (again) Tomino himself, he was already working on the designs for Char’s Counterattack, as reported in the 1996 winter issue of comic Newtype (as further confirmation of this dating, we also have Nagano‘s signature on the design sheets, “Mamoru Nagano 86“). Char’s Counterattack (which was already the tentative title at the time, according to the Official Records Collection) being a movie and not a TV series like Zeta and ZZ were, was convincing enough of a factor for him to return on the franchise once again; as Tomino pointed out in his invitation, “this time around” Nagano supposedly would have had “fewer pressure form the outside” and could have created “the final Gundam as he envisioned and pleased”. Unfortunately, that ended up not being the case that time either, as Nagano was taken off CCA as well (at least as the mecha designer), and Yutaka Izubuchi took his place.
Despite the unfortunate turn of events, Nagano‘s initial design works for CCA are still included in this collection (which indeed reaffirms itself as “Complete“), and specifically this Hi-S Gundam didn’t make its appearance to the public until relatively recently.
Nagano intended to pour his very own design concept and vision into this design for the Hi-SGundam (and for all the other mobile suits as well). Even though it ultimately ended up not being used in CCA, Nagano says he partially brought this same design concept of his over to Five Star Stories, which he was simultaneously working on at the time. An example of this is the design of the GTM Hi Rhiannon, which reused some of the concepts present in this initial version of Hi-S. This sharing of the same concepts and vision between the two works wasn’t just one directional though, as the opposite is true as well; for example, the designs for the Hi-S and the Psycho Doga were in turn influenced by the designs that were supposed to be used for the Mortar Headds in Five Star Stories instead, but given the “importance of the title ‘Gundam’” he was well aware of at the time, Nagano decided to prioritize the mobile suits‘ designs over the ones for his “own personal work”.
On a more technical note, Nagano remarks that the three rough designs on the right (which are dated “87.27.1“, so supposedly after he made the initial Hi-S design) were not solely meant for the Hi-SGundam, but rather as a general concept for all the Federation‘s mobile suits, as he was asked to work on all of them. Those “unfinished concept designs” were in fact later used as the basis for the RGM-89 Jegan, which does indeed look reminiscent of them. “The designs are so vague” he adds, “because [at the time I was working on them] the visual presentation [of the movie] in terms of direction hadn’t been decided yet”. A majority of the times, it was director Tomino himself who asked Nagano directly what was it that he personally wanted to do with the designs (this is to say, Nagano wasn’t pressured with a predetermined vision or some specific requests for the designs at all), and the two of them gradually figured things out together. That was about the same working methodology they’ve adopted ever since Zeta, or perhaps it’s more correct to say Tomino adopted, as Nagano recalls, aside from some minor adjustments or questions on his designs like the RMS-099Rick Dias‘, he ultimately was the one who had the final word on them; director Tomino on the other hand, instead of focusing on the designs themselves, primarily thought of “how he would use them in the storyboards or the scenario”. And the same was true not only for the mechanical designs, but also for Yoshikazu Yasuhiko‘s character designs.
Mamoru Nagano’s Zeta Gundam
Talking about Zeta, Nagano notes how the mobile suit referred to as “Zeta Gundam” in the design sheets (which are dated December 1986) was his own version of the Z, later used in CCA as the basis for the RGZ-91 Re-GZ, and it’s supposedly also the version that is “the true Z Gundam” to director Tomino.
Nagano was also responsible for the initial designs of the Hi-S Gundam‘s cockpit and the Psycommu Helmets. Unfortunately, he doesn’t remember much if anything at all about the cockpit, as he stated he “doesn’t even remember having designed it in the first place”. What he does remember though, is designing the Psycommu Helmets to be “stupidly big”, so that it would have been clear at a glance that the pilot was a newtype. When he submitted this idea, director Tomino responded with a bitter smile and Nagano immediately understood it didn’t appeal to him at all, and felt somewhat frustrated about it.
Nightingale (and the Neo Zeon Mobile Suits)
The other main mobile suitNagano designed in the initial phases of CCA‘s pre-production is the Nightingale (or, the “Naitiengeaile“, as Nagano himself wrote on the design sheet), that initially shared its name with its counterpart in the 1988 Mobile Suit Gundam:Char’s Counterattack –Beltorchika’s Children novel, and later evolved into its final iteration for the movie, the Sazabi. It’s interesting (but also unsurprising to some degree) that the initial tentative names for the two main mobile suits for Amuro and Char were much more akin (if not straight up the same) to the ones that were featured in both the previous and subsequent novelization related to CCA instead. Or, to put it another way, it’s cool to see how for the novel versions, especially Beltorchika’s Children that perhaps could be seen as a more “true to Tomino‘s vision” rendition of CCA, it was decided to feature these original names for the mobile suits in some capacity.
Much like with the Hi-S Gundam, the design concept for the Nightingale influenced (and was influenced by) some designs in Five Star Stories. Specifically, Nagano says its concept was then used for the Boowray MH, which does look strikingly similar.
Going back to the context of Gundam, Nagano says the only instruction Tomino gave him was to create something new, that “diverged from the mobile suits made up until that point”, but at the same time that “unified the technological backing and confusing design lines of Zeta and ZZ“. In short, the overall idea for CCA‘s mechanical design was to create something that felt fresh and new but also coherent to the technological advancements shown in the previous Universal Century installments.
Mamoru Nagano’s KIllah Dooga and Psycho Doola
Aside from Char‘s Nightingale, Nagano also worked on the initial designs for two other NeoZeon mobile suits: the “Killah Dooga” and the “Psycho Doola“, later reworked (seemingly from scratch, as their lack ofresemblance is remarkable) as the AMS-119 Geara Doga and (possibly) the MSN-03-2 Psycho Doga (which makes its appearance only in the aforementioned novel version of CCA, Beltorchika’s Children) respectively. Despite not remembering much about these two designs at the time of the commentary, he recalls how the idea was to create consistent designs for Zeon, using a silhouette similar to the Dom‘s and Gelgoog‘s (which coincidentally are the mechs that to Nagano best express the essence of a mobile suit, together with the original Zaku) in order to create an immediate and high-level visual distinction to the “Gundam side of mobile suits“.
Some of the concepts from these two designs as well were then partially brought over to the Five Star Stories‘ MHs, and Nagano remarks how both of the Killah Dooga and the Psycho Doola were drawn in the exact same and raw way he originally envisioned in his mind.
Battleships (Ra Cailum & Rewloola) and others
Regarding the battleships for both the Earth Federation (the Ra Cailum on the left) and Neo Zeon (the Rewloola on the right), Nagano explains how at the time he initially wanted to remove “traditional battleship elements” like the gun turrets and the bridges from the designs, as he couldn’t imagine such a futuristic and advanced war technology still held back by antiquated concepts like those. However, since “by that way of thinking even the mobile suits‘ presence would ultimately seem odd”, he decided to stick with a design more consistent with the mechanical world of Gundam.
Additional poses for the Hi-S Gundam (left) and the Nightingale (right) by animation director Hidetoshi Omori
The last piece of production material related to Nagano‘s mechanical designs that’s included in the Collection, are these additional sheets with poses for the two main mobile suits drawn by animation director Hidetoshi Omori. As he remarks, these drawings have “fewer lines” compared to Nagano‘s design sheets, in order to make it easier for the animators to understand the models and animate them.
To bring to a close this section dedicated to Mamoru Nagano, the dates on his design sheets allow us to make a more educated and precise guess on when he started working on Char’s Counterattack and when he ultimately left the project. Most of the designs are dated simply with “86“, but some include a full date, or at least a month written next to the year. The earliest date seems to be December 1986 (“86 Dec.“), on the Zeta Gundam and the Killah Dooga designs. We know for a fact that ZZ‘s pre-production was in its final phases by November of 1986 (or at least, that the latest documented piece of production material, the main cast character setting for the final episodes by Hiroyuki Kitazume, is dated as late as November 19th), so it might be safe to assume the CCA‘s conceptual phase, in which Nagano‘s involvement as the main mecha designer is inscribed, started around December of that same year. It’s interesting that the design of Hi-S Gundam is dated a generic “86” (much like the Nightingale‘s), but the general concept designs for the E.F.S.F. mobile suits are instead attributed to a later date, January 27th 1987 (“87.27.1“). The same goes for the Ra Cailum, as two different designs are included in the collection, one dated a generic “86“, and the other dated a generic “87“. Many other designs are also dated “87“, like the Hi-S‘ cockpit’s, the Psycho Doola‘s and some more in-detail views of the Nightingale. The latest design, the Rewloola‘s, is dated as late as February of 1987 (“87 Feb.“). The last clue we have are the dates on the proposals re-designs for the main Gundam, drawn consequentially to Nagano’s departure from the project by various artists, the earliest one being April 8th 1987.
To sum everything up, we can assume that Char’s Counterattack‘s pre-production began somewhere between late November and early December of 1986, with Nagano (naturally) already on the team. It was then around late February or early March of 1987 that the decision was made to take him off the project, and just a few weeks later, various other designers and artists submitted their aforementioned redesigns for Amuro‘s “newGundam“.
Yutaka Izubuchi
νGundam
Following Mamoru Nagano‘s departure from the project, around early spring of 1987, many other artists were tasked with creating their own designs for the new main Gundam, setting up an actual “Design Proposal Competition” as the Collection labels it. Among the artists who participated in this “competition”, were animation director Hidetoshi Omori (from whose comment we get to know that from around this time director Tomino wanted the new Gundam to “have a cape” on its back), Sunrise Viscial Design team members Kouichi Inoue, Shigeru Horiguchi and Nobushiki Tsukada, Masahisa Suzuki, Kazunori Nakazawa and notably Hideaki Anno, whose design are the first ones to refer to the mobile suit not as “Hi-S Gundam” but as “N Gundam“. By this time, Yutaka Izubuchi was appointed to work on the designs for Neo Zeon-side mobile suits instead.
Various design proposals for the new Gundam, respectively from left to right by: Shigeru Horiguchi, Kouichi Inoue, Kazunori Nakazawa (the last two designs). The last drawing on the right is by Kouichi Inoue and it’s one of the tracings over Kunio Okawara and Yoshikazu Yasuhiko’s original drawings
According to Inoue, it was hard to effectively put together all the requests made by Tomino and the sponsors for the new Gundam‘s design; in order to make the overall design concept clearer, director Tomino asked the designers to “go back to the original Gundam” and to make “something simple” in direct opposition to the complicated and transformable designs from the latest (at the time) installments, like ZZ‘s. Inoue reveals also that one of their inspirations were the Formula One machines, and that they tried to incorporate into the Gundam‘s designs the multi-layered structure of components like the SuperTrapp mufflers. What ultimately helped the team to get closer and closer to the simplicity requested in the design concept though, was a much more straightforward process: tracing over Kunio Okawara‘s designs and Yoshikazu Yasuhiko‘s perspective drawing sheets of the original RX-78Gundam.
A detail that may prove particularly interesting for those enthusiasts who are especially into the technological evolution and progression of the U.C., is that during these early stages of the designs for this new Gundam, the psycho-frame was supposed to be installed all over its body, like in the later RX-0 Unicorn Gundam, instead of just around the cockpit.
Shigeru Horiguchi’s final design for the Fin Funnels
The initial idea to use a “plate-shaped funnel” to make up the cape director Tomino asked for, which Inoue adds was not meant to be a “typical cape that covered one’s whole back” but rather something asymmetrical, “hanged on only one of the shoulders”, was conceptualized by the Viscial Design team. Reportedly, to convey their idea more intuitively to the producers and the director, instead of simply drawing a design sheet for it, the team used a 1/60 scale Gunpla and attached a cut-out cardboard panel on its back left side. That same plastic model was then shown directly to director Tomino by producer Uchida. Upon being approved, the task to refine such design for the Fin Funnels was handed over to Shigeru Horiguchi.
Horiguchi says he drew and redrew the funnels over and over several times, until he finally came up with an idea he was incredibly confident in: what he describes as the “bamboo-sushi-mat-like” funnels in the picture. He was so confident in fact, that on the final design sheets he showed director Tomino, carried away by his enthusiasm, he wrote unprofessional and self-admiring comments like “good!“, comments he refers to in the commentary as the “mistakes of one’s youth”, quoting Char‘s famous line from the original Mobile Suit Gundam. What surprised and pleased him the most though, was Tomino‘s immediate approval of the design.
Yutaka Izubuchi’s designs for the new Gundam: on the left a more rough study sketch and on the right a more refined design
When it comes to his design for the Proposal Competition (dated April 29th 1987), Izubuchi states he was very supportive of director Tomino‘s idea of returning to a simpler Gundam; the rough sketch on the left, he says, was likely a “study to integrate the overall simpler silhouette of the original Gundam into the new design”. His is also the very first design to have Amuro‘s logo printed on its left shoulder, albeit much more complex compared to the very minimal final version. As reported earlier, Izubuchi worked on the νGundam‘s design separately from the other artists and the Viscial Design team, this also explains why his designs are dated a few weeks later (some of the previously discussed designs are dated as early as April 6th). He knew how the other proposed designs looked like, but wasn’t in direct contact with any of the other artists, as producer Uchida acted as an intermediary for everything. Because the schedule was so tight, Izubuchi says he was kind of a “pinch hitter” for the project, and has been one since the time he was working as a “guest” mechanical designer on Aura Battler Dunbine. As another consequence of the pressing schedule, Izubuchi recalls that director Tomino didn’t provide many of his opinions or comments on the final νGundam design.
On a more technical note, as already partially described, some of the features in Izubuchi‘s final design were borrowed from the work of other artists, like the Fin Funnels “cape” concept ideated by the Viscial Design team, and the piece of armor that protects the ankle that was “suggested to him by producer Uchida and originally came from one of MasahisaSuzuki‘s designs”. Another detail he really liked but likely comes from another artist’s idea, is the double V antenna on the νGundam‘s head that thus has four spikes instead of the classic two.
Re-GZ
The RGZ-91 Re-GZ, as mentioned earlier in Mamoru Nagano‘s section, is meant to be a variant of the Zeta Gundam, specifically, a mass-produced (and lower-price, according to Izubuchi) version. The name Re-GZ stands in fact for Refined Gundam Zeta. One key point in designing the Re-GZ was to make it look like the Zeta, but at the same time not “too much like a Gundam“; basically, to make a simplified and stripped-down version of the Zeta. For this exact reason, some Gundam-like elements of the original design were removed or repositioned, like the V antenna that was changed into a simpler non-V antenna-like shape, and instead of being positioned on the front of the mobile suit‘s head, was attached to its top, pointing backwards.
Izubuchi just drew the overall rough design and a sketch of the transformation mechanism, and then entrusted the rest of the work to assistant designer Kouichi Ohata, as he was already busy designing the other mobile suits. Izubuchi says that at the time he had Ohata work in his home studio, so communication between the two was very quick and efficient. Ohata is also responsible for the original concept of the mobile suit‘s B.W.S. (Back Weapon System), that Izubuchi later polished and refined. He then asked mechanical designer Yoshinori Sayama to do the final clean-up for the whole Re-GZ.
Jegan
The RGM-89 Jegan is another of the E.F.S.F. mass-produces mobile suits, Izubuchi says, the successor to the Nemo line rather than the GM‘s. In the early rough designs, the Jegan has indeed overall slimmer proportions and a taller build, additional signs of it being initially inspired by the Nemo. The Vulcan Pod installed on the Jegan‘s head is a reference to the Zeta‘s Gundam Mk-II, and in general the design tries to incorporate many elements of the main machines from the previous (to CCA) Gundam installments.
According to Izubuchi, due to their similarity, many people compared the Jegan to the Ingram in Mobile Police Patlabor, that was released in April 1988, around the same time as CCA.
The initial rough design (on the left of the picture, complete with Tomino‘s corrections) was somewhat heavily revisited, following the instructions director Tomino and producer Uchida gave to the designer. For example, Uchida asked to remove the waist armor, a decision that ended up making the suit feel more sturdy and solid overall (but also “more similar to the Ingram“). Director Tomino, on the other hand, asked to revise the head which originally made the mobile suit look “too much like a weakling”, and also directed to make the nozzles on the backpack bigger in size.
The Jegan‘s a “long-lasting” mobile suit, appearing in following works like Mobile Suit Gundam F91, and whose variants have appeared even in more recent titles like Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn and Mobile Suit GundamHathaway’s Flash. In this regard, Izubuchi believes it was a successful design for the Earth Federation‘s new “flagship” machine.
Sazabi
Not strictly related to its mechanical design, but much like what happened with the νGundam, the Sazabi too went through various renames during the pre-production phase of CCA. The very first name Char‘s new (and last) mobile suit was given was apparently “Nightingale“, as it was indeed referred to during the early stages of the project, when Nagano was still on board (and, as already pointed out earlier, as its counterpart in the Beltorichika’s Children novel ended up being called). The next name it was given (even though it’s not clear as to why “Nightingale” was changed) was “The Knack“, but ultimately this name too was changed to the final “Sazabi“, due to trademark issue. One thing that didn’t change in the process, unlike with the νGundam, was its overall design concept, that was most definitely solidly established ever since the early stages.
Izubuchi says that what he wanted for this design was for it to “inherit the Zeon-style traits” from the other mobile suits of the Principality. “Rather than being just a Zaku-type mobile suit” he intended it as “the successor to the Dom and the Gelgoog“, and this inheritance is seen in elements like the “wide skirt-like armor and the verniers on its shoulders and legs”. The head was instead inspired by the helmet Char himself wore during the One Year War, its design being replicated “as is”; the horn-like elements and the lines of the helmet were both incorporated in the head’s design. It was a motif intended “to make the impression upon people that the Sazabi was indeed Char‘s personal machine”.
A rather troublesome aspect of Sazabi‘s design, Izubuchi explains, was the placement of the cockpit. He initially thought it was placed in the mobile suit‘s torso as usual, but in director Tomino‘s boards it appeared to be placed on the mech’s head instead. The schedule was too thigh at the time, and Izubuchi says he regrets he couldn’t really think this through as much as he would have liked to: his original idea was to place the spherical cockpit directly inside the Sazabi‘s head, but it would have been way too smaller than it should have. Tomino then proposed to move it under the mobile suit‘s neck, but even in that case, Izubuchi says, the proportions didn’t really make full sense, and thus when towards the end of the movie the νGundam holds Char‘s cockpit in its hand, “it’s obvious that the cockpit’s size is wrong”.
A more detailed view of the Sazabi’s backpack, as well as other mechanical details. This sheet is dated May 26th 1987, and it’s interesting to note that the Sazabi was still called “The Knack” to this date.
Another interesting aspect of the design were the funnels. They were originally designed to be an evolution of the MAN-08 Elmeth and the AMX-004 Qubeley‘s remote-controlled bits, and as the name “funnel” suggests, they were also supposed to have an overall simple cylindrical structure. That would have been way too uninteresting however, so Izubuchi added a little “gimmick to them”, so that when launched, “their outer shielding would spread out like wings, making them look like cross-shaped objects from upfront”.
Lastly, various notes on the design sheets remark how, as opposed to the νGundam‘s, very few steps and corrections were required for the Sazabi‘s design, since its concept and design line were very clearly outlined from the beginning stages, and the first rough sketches were consequentially already really close to what ended up being the final design.
Jagd Doga
The Jagd Doga was initially supposed to be called “Pyscho Doga” (or “Doola“, as seen in Nagano‘s drafts). The reason its name was later changed to the on we know today is strikingly simple: Izubuchi says he “didn’t like the name Pyscho Doga at all”, so when he submitted his design proposal, he “submitted is as the ‘Jagd Doga‘ instead”, and that ended up being used as the final name for the Neo Zeon‘s mobile suit.
It was designed as a “Newtype-exclusive version” of the Geara Doga, and its image was to overall resemble that of a knight; its head’s shape was in fact meant to be similar to the the face guard of a knight’s armor. An interesting thing to note is that the Jagd Doga‘s colors, that look like yellow and gray in the final movie, were instead supposed to be gold and silver. As Izubuchi explains, “with today’s CG it would definitely be possible, but it was quite hard to recreate that effect at the time”. In this regard, he regrets that he could have made it look better overall.
This time too, the design hardly changed at all from the first rough drafts; aside from the head, the overall balance of the mobile suit was basically left unchanged. Around the same stage the head of the Jagd Doga was refined to look more like a knight’s armor, Gyunei‘s Beam Assault Rifle was also designed. The mech’s design itself wasn’t too difficult to put together (having the Geara Doga as its base), and the real highlight were instead its weapons, especially Quess‘ unit’s Mega Gatling Gun and the Heat Knife attached to its Beam Saber. The latter (“unfortunately”) ended up not being used in the movie, although “not very practical”, says Izubuchi, “it’s an interesting shape that was never quite used before” in Gundam, so it would have been fun to see how it could have worked in practice. The Mega Gatling Gun on the other hand was used in the story, and even though he didn’t know the extent of it (that is, the scene where Quess ends up killing her own father by blowing up the bridge of the battleship he was riding on), Izubuchi designed it as a flashy and brutal weapon. Unlike Gyunei‘s Beam Rifle, which wouldn’t have had quite the same impact, “making it a Gatling-type gun” allowed the scene to be even more brutal in its presentation.
Geara Doga
The Geara Doga is admittedly a mobile suitIzubuchi really likes. It was supposed to be the successor to the Zaku II, and it was quite successful in that regard, as the mechanical designer himself remarks. The whole idea was simply to make a “modern day Zaku“, and also embed in its design a little more of the “Spartan imagery” it already had.
As the Geara Doga is a mass produced, general-purpose suit like the Zaku II, a wide variety of weapons were designed for it to use. Another trait that extends not only to the Geara Doga and Zeon-side but also the the Earth Federation-side of mobile suits as well, that was conceptualized around this same time, was the idea for each side to have a distinct type of manipulator with peculiar differences on their mobile suits. For instance, the Zeonsuits having rounded fingers and the E.F.S.F.suits having squared ones also is a “trend” that started in that same period. Both the Geara Doga and the Jegan are “long-lasting designs” as Izubuchi says, “but in that sense, the manipulators’ designs are even more long-lasting”.
α Azieru
In Tomino‘s original scenario, Quess was supposed to pilot only the Psycho Doga (Jagd Doga) until the very end. Izubuchi however, wanted a “more impressive, gigantic and monstrous enemy to appear” in the movie, so he made and submitted the design in the picture. At that time, the name “Psycho Doga” was already replaced by his “Jagd Doga“, so he proposed this additional design to be the “new Psycho Doga” instead, even though its inspiration was clearly and integrally the MSN-02Zeong (whose name was also written on the first design Izubuchi submitted). Admittedly, he never thought a mech actually by the name of “Neo Zeong” would have appeared in later installments (it in fact appeared in the 2010 Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn first, and in its sequel, Mobile Suit Gundam Narrative later), but that was indeed the idea and concept Izubuchi had in mind when conceptualizing his α Azieru for CCA.
The α Azieru was designed to be a “last-boss-like monstrous entity”, and its silhouette was meant to look like a cross from the distance. Talking about silhouette, it was around the same time he was figuring out how it would look (or should have looked) from different perspectives that Izubuchi decided to add a mechanism to detach the long propeller tanks from below the suit and have its silhouette drastically change as a consequence. Although it wasn’t prominently featured in the movie, a lot of thought was put into designing the mobile armor‘s transformation mechanism, as many sketches and corrections seem to suggest, both by the mechanical designer Izubuchi himself and by director Tomino, who, I guess, ended up liking the idea of adding this enormous mech to his story.
Its funnels, unlike the Sazabi‘s and the Jagd Doga‘s ones, are not in the newly established cylindrical shape, and instead look like the more classical remote-controlled bits. That was because if he were to enlarge the cylindrical-shaped funnels to match the α‘s size, “it would have then been difficult to properly convey the right sense of size” overall.
Hobby Hizack
There’s not much to say about the Hobby Hizack; as Izubuchi points out, it’s basically just “an Hizack stripped of all its weapons”. All its hand-held weapons are gone, the spikes on its shoulders are gone, and it’s just the same mobile suit with its edges rounded and softened. Interestingly, Izubuchi didn’t directly trace the Hizack‘s model drawings, but instead drew it from scratch. He didn’t really understand what a “civilian-use mobile suit” was supposed to be like, so he went with a sort of “amicable and gentle” design. On a more fun note, he adds that the gaudy final color scheme for the suit really surprised him.
Med
The Med is a small mobile worker, that is, a machine whose primary purpose is work rather than combat. “As the name suggests”, says Izubuchi (“Med” apparently comes from “met” from “helmet“), “its whole designed is centered around its head”, or rather its cockpit, that makes up basically all of its body. It was based on a similar machine, the ZZ‘s Petit Mobile Suit, but instead of the focus being on the legs, it was on the “head”.
Designs by art director Shigemi Ikeda
Ra Cailum
When it comes to the designs for the battleships, many more artists were widely involved in creating them, and not primarily just Yutaka Izubuchi. Many of these “side” mechanical design works, including also elements like the space shuttle, the base jabbersetc. were handed off to Gainax.
The Ra Cailum design in the picture in particular was drawn by art director Shigemi Ikeda; he recalls producer Uchida directly asking him to clean up Mamoru Nagano‘s early designs for the ships. What Izubuchi ended up doing on his hand, was just drawing some really rough sketches which he explains he doesn’t even remember drawing at all, as he was so busy with the other designs at the time. If he had designed the battleships (and all the other mechanical objects) himself, as he admittedly wishes he could have, Izubuchi says he wouldn’t have had enough time for the mobile suits, which understandably were the most central part of his work.
The (Gainax) designers ultimately responsible for the Ra Cailum‘s design were Hideaki Anno and Shoichi Masuo. The details that were adjusted or changed from Nagano and Izubuchi‘s rough sketches following the instructions by director Tomino, include making the turret longer and the Mega Particle Cannon larger (a correction that the director has presumably drawn himself). The design then evolved to have more angular lines, reminiscing of the Earth Federation‘s Salamis-class cruisers, and was later slightly changed again with the lines around the bridge and the bow being more curved and gentle.
Designs by art director Shigemi Ikeda
Rewloola
A similar fate befell the Rewloola, with Ikeda (eagerly, as he recalls having had much fun drawing these spaceships designs) cleaning up Nagano‘s early designs under request of producer Uchida. Ikeda‘s drawing were then used as a reference by the Gainax designers to refine their own, more conceptual designs. For the Neo Zeon‘s battleship too, Izubuchi barely had the time to draw rough sketches; interestingly, he says that for both the Rewloola and the Ra Cailum, he hadn’t seen Nagano‘s early designs, and created his drafts totally on his own.
The Rewloola‘s design too was handled by Anno and Masuo; the design was likely inspired by Zeon‘s previous cruisers such as the Musai-class and the Gwadan-class ones. By the time the Gainax artists submitted their first rough drafts, ideas like the shape of the hull were already part of the design. Concurrently to the Rewloola, the Musaka-class was being designed as well, but contrary to the former’s design, which got changed a lot in the process, the latter’s one was basically left unchanged since its early stages.
To conclude this section on the mechanical design, I think it’s worth noting that all the design were made between late April and late June of 1987. A lot of roughs for the Neo Zeon-side mobile suits are dated sometime in April, which lines up with Izubuchi being tasked with them early, when everyone else was working on the redesign for the Hi-S Gundam. Several of those very rough designs (“sketches” would be a better word perhaps), including one for the so-called “Berge Doga” based on the WWII German tank “Bergepanzer“, ultimately didn’t make their way to the final product, but that’s most likely by design, as they were intended just as a conceptualization of the design vision for Char’s Counterattack as a whole. By the first half of May, all the drafts and rough designs for both the Earth Federation and Neo Zeonmobile suits were completed, and between late May and late June, all the designs (including the weapon’s) were refined and cleaned up. The latest design sheet is the Med‘s final one, and is dated June 26th 1987.
Character Design
This second major section of the article, dedicated to the character design, aims to explore some of the drafts that were drawn by character designer Hiroyuki Kitazume before the designs were ultimately finalized. Much like the previous section, this one too will feature a commentary by the artist himself, but it won’t be divided in sub-sections. Instead, I’ll present the various character designs and corresponding commentaries in one longer, continuous piece.
Amuro Ray’s earliest rough character design
In the Records Collection book, this chapters starts off with several different design sheets for AmuroRay, the last one dated as late as April 11th 1987 and, while the first one is not explicitly dated, based off some other early designs (notably, the earliest CharAznable one) we can assume it was made around March 13th of the same year. Rather than directly commenting on Amuro‘s design, Kitazume starts with talking about the “overall picture”, that is, the overall concept and vision behind Char’s Counterattack‘s character design. Director Tomino started by simply asking Kitazume to “try drawing Amuro and Char in a new way, not just as an extension of Yoshikazu Yasuhiko‘s work” in the previous installments. Despite how simple of a request this may (or may not) sound, “Amuro was still Amuro, and Char had to still look like Char“, so the point of several different designs for the main characters being made was to find the correct “style” and design line by a trial-and-error-like process. Kitazume‘s first work as a character designer (for Gundam, and second in general) was ZZ, but that time he was asked to do things quite literally the opposite way; the concept for ZZ‘s character design was to continue on the same line and legacy left by Yasuhiko, and not only that, but another core point of the whole show was to lower the age of the target audience, so Kitazume “deliberately created designs that were easier to understand”. As said earlier, Tomino didn’t provide any specific instruction for Char’s Counterattack‘s designs, but the overall concept he outlined was not to make the characters “look like manga’s”, since his goal was to depict a “human drama”. As Kitazume explains, the director requested the character designer to refrain from creating what he describes as “deformed” designs, with “big heads and eyes”; aside from Quess, who being the “heroine” was allowed to be slightly deformed, all the other (main) characters had to convey real “human expressions”. In this regard, Kitazume‘s design process (for Amuro in this example) involved imagining how the character would have looked like when acted by voice actor Tooru Furuya, how expressive would it have been and whether or not it would still have looked like Amuro.
Beltorichika Irma’s character design
Right next to Amuro‘s character design, there’s one you may be a bit surprised to find here, or perhaps one that you did expect to find, if you instead know something about the original scenario for CCA. I’m talking about Beltorchika Irma‘s character design of course, dated March 13th 1987.
For those of you who’re unfamiliar with this topic, let me digress from the character design to clear things up a bit here. When it was decided for Char’s Counterattack to finally become a movie, the first script director Tomino submitted was somewhat quite different from the one that ended up being adapted in the actual movie. Which might sound reasonable, as it’s not so unlikely to change a thing or two about a movie’s script this early in the production. However, when it comes to CCA, Tomino‘s initial script was completely rejected. As for why that was, a more thorough answer was given by Tomino himself in the interview I mentioned before (which, by the way, is also featured in the Records Collection book just before the “Making of” chapter), but in short, it basically comes down to the presence of Beltorchika as Amuro‘s love interest, or to put it bluntly, actual partner. The relationship between her and the Gundam pilot seemed unappealing and unsuited for the “hero of a robot movie” in the eyes of the sponsors at the time, and since her role was pretty relevant and quite central in the narrative, the original script had to be rewritten almost from scratch. Fortunately, you can still experience that initial version of CCA through the 1988 novelization I’ve brought up quite a few times up to this point, Mobile Suit Gundam:Char’s Counterattack –Beltorchika’s Children (or, if you prefer, its subsequent 2014 manga adaptation), but the takeaway here is that ultimately Beltorchika Irma didn’t make her appearance in the movie version. I thought it was interesting nonetheless to spend a few words to her character design, which was drawn in the earliest stages of the production alongside Amuro‘s and Char‘s as the date seems to suggest, even though the book doesn’t offer any comment on it.
Chan Agi’s rough character design
Following Beltorchika, there’s Chan Agi‘s design; a choice that feels rather deliberate, as she was the new character introduced to take Beltorchika‘s place in the story. Chan‘s very first design is dated April 3rd; this information allows us to place the revision of the script during the second half of March 1987, since Beltorchika’s design is dated March 13th.
As Kitazume explains, Chan‘s design direction was hard to put together at first. He’d drawn many different sheets like with Amuro and Char‘s designs, but none of them matched what the director’s wanted for the character. Tomino (presumably, as the character designer says he’s not entirely sure it was actually Tomino) then asked Kitazume to approach her design from a different direction: he suggested to use a “real, living person as a model” and “incorporate that aspect in the design”. Of course, he didn’t mean to simply copy the look of an actual existing person and draw it as is, but rather to integrate the image of a real person into the character design. As a result, around April 20th, Chan‘s design started to look like the one we know from the movie, and with some minor adjustments to the hairstyle and the eyes, by April 23rd Chan‘s design was completed.
In regard to all his character design work (for CCA) in general, Kitazume remarks how director Tomino warned him about the length of the character’s necks. “If you think of Hollywood actors, their necks are longer than the average Japanese person’s one”, so in order to properly convey the right proportions in the character design, even if the character was “wearing military uniforms with stand-up collars, their neck lines had to be clearly visible”. Kitazume payed much attention to these details when working on the designs, and since Tomino reportedly wanted this attention to details and precision to be present in the actual animation as well, Kitazume remembers warning the animation directors too about this particular request.
Bright Noa’s rough character design
Noticeably, one feature of Captain Bright Noa‘s earliest design that didn’t make it to the final product is his beard. And by “the final product” I specifically mean the movie and the movie only, since in the Beltorchika’s Children manga he does still feature a beard.
Anyways, Kitazume explains how his intent behind this choice (to add the beard, that is) was to “make his presence even more important considering the passage of time”, as Bright had always been a character with “great presence and dignity” since the very first Mobile Suit Gundam. The idea was to make him look more like Blex Forer from Zeta, with a beard and also a larger waist. Kitazume says he was “just a young man around 24” by the time he drew this design, and admittedly “didn’t understand what it meant to be in one’s ‘prime of life’ yet”. Bright was just in his thirties, and “had no business looking like an old man like this”, so in the final design he looks a fair bit younger. Kitazume admits that at the time he had little knowledge and didn’t know “finer techniques” to draw adult characters, so he ultimately used to simply add a beard or mustaches to achieve the effect of making the characters look older.
Hathaway Noa’s rough character design
This initial rough design for Hathaway Noa, dated March 19th, was drawn exceptionally early, when the general direction for the character design was yet to be decided altogether. It’s no surprise then that it looks nothing like the final, refined one. Quoting Kitazume‘s own words, “it doesn’t look like Gundam at all”.
To make Hathaway look more like Bright and Mirai‘s son in his later design, Kitazume tried to replicate and incorporate in his design some of the facial features of his parents, like the eyes being smaller than usual. Hathaway is by no means a new character, for he was introduced as early as in Zeta, designed by the then-character designer Yoshikazu Yasuhiko. However, aside from the overall concept of not strictly sticking to Yasuhiko‘s designs, “the age difference was too great” for Hathaway‘s original design to serve as any kind of reference when making this new one.
Char Aznable’s earliest rough character design
Char Aznable‘s initial design proposals, says Kitazume, were probably influenced by the ZZ character design style, that is, as explained earlier, a character design aimed to a younger audience. Evidence of that influence can be seen in the “Neo Zeon uniform or in the long hair”. “The character design in anime started with Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atom, 1963), then was developed further in Space Battleship Yamato (1974) and Mobile Suit Gundam (1979), and later evolved even further in Macross (1982) and Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam (1985)”. At that stage, character design in anime “had stepped up a gear”, as the demands and requirements for the designs for both the clothing and the characters themselves evolved significantly. That was “exactly what director Tomino wanted [for CCA]: to create characters suited to act out a ‘human drama'”.
Char Aznable’s second rough character design
Of course, that same concept and vision were applied when working on Char‘s character design as well, including his military uniform, which played an integral role in establishing the overall “sense of realism” in the design. The slicked back hairstyle that ended up in the final design, Kitazume recalls, was also one of his ideas. He thought it would have been rather odd for the leader and commander of Neo Zeon to have “long hair with a 7/3 haircut”. So, he proposed a hairstyle with a “more mature feel to it”, but that still retained some semblance of wildness. The final design ultimately featured an even more slicked back hairstyle, as the goal was to “get totally rid of the anime-like impression” in it, and since it was common back then for adult men to expose their foreheads more, it was decided for a more mature and dignified design for Char.
Nanai Miguel’s rough character design
Mirroring the arrangement of the designs for the Earth Federation side of the characters, following Char there’s his lover, Nanai Miguel. Much like what he was suggested to do with Chan‘s design, Kitazume used a real person as a reference for Nanai‘s design as well; he recalls using Japanese actresses as models for Chan‘s design and Hollywood actresses for Nanai‘s. Since he already established this very design direction when creating Chan, Nanai‘s design was pretty easy and straightforward to work on.
Quess Paraya’s first rough character design (left) and second rough character design (right)
The amount of drafts and how different the character looks in each of them clearly shows how much Kitazume struggled with Quess Paraya‘s character design. Director Tomino didn’t give him any specific instruction, which in a sense made things worse for the character designer, as he admits he “didn’t really know what kind of person the girl called Quess was”. In the very vague instructions the director gave to Kitazume, there was no mention of her appearance nor of her personality whatsoever.
“She’s not like Lalah, nor like Four, nor like Ple, but she’s a newtype girl”, that was pretty much it. Therefore, the very first rough design (on the left) Kitazume drew gives off a faint impression of a mix between Four and Ple; what’s not faint in the slightest is the “vivid depiction of how lost” he was. He’s not sure it’s something he purposefully intended to depict at the time, but Kitazume thinks “the asymmetry in Quess‘ design was a way to convey her dual nature”. Looking at it now, the asymmetrical hairstyle and clothes serve really well to express her inner instability, but at the time he probably drew it just as an aesthetic quirk.
Quess‘ clothing changes a lot every time she appears, so it was especially difficult to come up with all the design variations. Her clothes are “often frilly” which, looking back, may have been a way to convey “Quess‘ elusive girly side”. When working on the character design for ZZ, director Tomino often scolded Kitazume and told him to further study clothing design, advising him to use western children’s clothes as a reference.
Grave Guss’ first rough character design (left) and Gyunei Guss’ more refined character design (right)
GyuneiGuss‘s name in the original script was Grave Guss, the same name that (unexpectedly at this point) was later used in the Beltorichika’s Children novel, but his role and status in the story remained unchanged (for instance, he was always meant to be a cyber newtype from the start). Like with Char‘s, Gyunei‘s initial design (on the left) was somewhat reminiscent of the ZZ‘s style; “he had a villain-like feel” to him that was no good for CCA. An advice (or direction) director Tomino gave Izubuchi in this regard was that “bad guys shouldn’t have a bad face. Just because they play the role of the bad guy there’s no need to make them look bad”; the Zabi‘s faces in the original Gundam were those of bad guys, and it was fine at the time, but it ultimately “ends up making the design look too much anime-like”. So, consequentially, Gyunei‘s designs changed fairly drastically.
Towards the end of the animation process, Kitazume recalls a small talk he had with producer Uchida, who told him how his designs “were generally hard to draw”, seemingly in terms of consistency, “but Gyunei looked like Gyunei no matter who drew it”. In that sense, he believe it was a successful design, and personally he also thinks Gyunei‘s appearance really matched the voice and acting of voice actor Kouichi Yamadera, an aspect that consequentially greatly helped the character leaving a strong impression overall.
Kitazume describes Gyunei, Neo Zeon‘s Rezin Schnyder and the E.F.S.F.‘s Kayra Su as characters with “different vectors” that were all clearly outlined in the designs. Gyunei‘s a “cyber newtype, a rival-like character impulsive and ambitious at his core”. Rezin is a “professional fighter”, even though she’s an oldtype, she’s not too wary of the little things and gives off the impression of being a real “warmonger”. Lastly, Kayra too is a soldier and a pilot, but she’s “the polar opposite of Rezin“, being more of a naive girl. “She deeply values the greater cause” and moral aspects of war, while Rezin “cares solely about the combat”. Although they’re both highly skilled pilots, their stances are in complete opposition, and Kitazume believes he was able to reflect this aspect of their character in the designs.
A more refined Adenauer Paraya’s character designs
Concluding the character design section, there are a few comments on the remaining side characters’ designs. In Quess‘ father, Adenauer Paraya‘s early designs, he appeared either “too wide or too thin”, since the initial idea was to draw him as being at either one of the extremes. In the end, Kitazume settled with a more average build, he explains, as “it would have been out of place for a minor bureaucrat like him to have a body too well-built”. The other supporting characters weren’t at all difficult to draw, as the overall design direction had already been well established by that time. For characters like Cameron Bloom, who’d already made their appearance in previous entries, there was little to no trouble either. Kitazume admits that when it came to side characters, he’d exhausted his “design repertoire” with the Gaza Squadron trio in ZZ, but “older characters appeared all the time” and thanks to the experience he got drawing them in different ways, he became “more confident when it comes to designing supporting characters like these”. It’s generally hard to portray each character’s peculiar traits in their design, but thank to how much director Tomino had trained him in designing characters with specific roles, Kitazume says he hardly had any trouble with drawing all the different variations.
All the character designs were drawn starting early March of 1987 with the designs for the main cast, to early June for the supporting characters, the latest one being a cleaned-up and refined sheet for Cameron Bloom. The “oldest” character model included in the Collection is a variation of Nanai‘s design, in which she’s wearing a shirt instead of the usual uniform. This sheet is dated August 13th 1987, but as Kitazume explains it’s not, in fact, the “final design” (that was instead already refined by late April), but rather just one of the specific variations.
Other Designs
Besides mobile suits, battleships and characters, many other designs were necessary to support an immersive depiction of the Universal Century. Rough designs for elements like the normal suits, small props, and the display interfaces are featured in this section. Providing the commentary for this section, there’s again mechanical designer Yutaka Izubuchi.
Some rough sketches by Yutaka Izubuchi
A huge amount of sketches and roughs for the normal suits were drawn by various artists, but as Izubuchi explains, he doesn’t really remember under what circumstances each of the designs was used. Gainax artists by the likes of Shoichi Masuo were appointed to design the normal suits, but their initial results were “too realistic”, whereas the expectation (likely of the producers) was for the designs to have “more character to them”. Consequentially, Izubuchi tried to incorporate elements reminiscent of the designs generally used for the “heroes in tokusatu“, and upon being approved by director Tomino, the new designs were then used for Char‘s and Quess‘ pilot suits.
In the final product, many different types of normal suits were used: those for the Earth Federation soldiers and pilots, those for the Neo Zeon soldiers and pilots, Char‘s and Quess‘ ones, and even the shuttle suits for the civilians. The majority of the rough designs were drawn by Gainax members, remarkably including the name of Yoshiyuki Sadamoto.
Sketches of the firearms by Yutaka Izubuchi
Other elements that needed to be designed were the firearms carried by the soldiers, Izubuchi recalls, since Amuro and Char used them in the story. All the rough designs in the picture were drawn by Izubuchi himself; he remarks how there was no actual final design sheet for the rifle, as it was just carried by a Neo Zeon soldier guarding Beverly Hills Station in the Sweetwater space colony around the halfway mark of the movie.
Some other “minor” designs he worked on were the ones for the marks and logos for both the E.F.S.F. and Neo Zeon, specifically the one that ended up on the Sazabi‘s shield.
Some of the many reference drawings for the displays and interfaces
The images displayed on the monitors of both the spaceships and the mobile suits were drawn by hand instead of being made in CG like they are today, so reference drawings and concept designs were necessary to ensure a proper level of consistency throughout the movie.
Background Art
This last major section features rough sketches and preliminary drafts for the background art and setting, as well as some of the material and drawings used for the three-dimensional model of space colonies. Char’s Counterattack was the first Gundam entry to feature space colonies in CG. Art director Shigemi Ikeda provided the commentary for this section.
The Sweetwater space colony and a sketch of its internal landscape
The Sweetwater space colony, base to Neo Zeon, has an irregular shape clearly “outlining the unstable condition its inhabitants are forced to in”. With this premise, art director Shigemi Ikeda opens his commentary on the background art for Char’s Counterattack. The space colony is divided in two sections, the “open-type” one and the “close-type” one. The close-type part, as the name suggests, is a closed cylinder in shape, with just one line in the middle that serves as the main light source. The open-type one, on the other hand, to let the outside light in, has three giant mirrors on the outside wall, which can be opened and closed to simulate day and night. Give its peculiar appearance and functioning, Ikeda had to draw even specific parts and elements of it, like its mechanical joints.
The art director is personally “really fond of things like the space colonies”, so he recalls having had much fun drawing it. Director Tomino explained to him how in order for people to live inside of a space colony, which is an enclosed and thigh space, “it’s necessary to scrupulously recreate the scenery of Earth”, and a considerable “cost” is spent to achieve such a result. The reason why the inside of a space colony has to look somewhat old-fashioned, is because “people [living inside of it] would go crazy” if that wasn’t the case. Thus, Sweetwater inside looks like a “slightly old-fashioned New York cityscape”, a scenery Ikeda was able to depict only because he had actually traveled to America to do some research. He believes he wouldn’t have been able to recreate such a scenery, like the monorail and the train station, if he “hadn’t seen them with his own eyes”.
The Londenion space colony
Londenion, on the other hand, is a typical “open-type” space colony. What helped Ikeda the most while designing it was “a miniature model someone in the studio had made”. It wasn’t too sophisticated of a model, rather, it was something very simple, made out of a rolled up piece of animation cel with cut-outs corresponding to the mirrors. Still, it made “the way the inside of the colony was reflected on the mirrors” much easier to understand. Unfortunately, pictures of this miniature model aren’t featured in the Collection, but it remains a “very useful reference”, whose impact was then reflected in the final designs for the space colony, as well as in the movie’s actual visuals.
Rough sketches for the mass driver installed on the moon’s surface and the shuttle pad in New Hong Kong are also featured in this section of the Collection; all of these minor designs that blend between mechanical and art direction, were made by Gainax artists.
The Ra Cailum’s internals design
Back then, the internals of mechanical objects like the battleships were not part of the mechanical designer’s work like they are today, but rather it was “common sense” that “the mecha designer would draw the exterior, and the art direction team would do the interior”. Perhaps it was considered background art as it’s used as such in the final product, explains Ikeda, but since he particularly likes drawing battleships anyway, it was a fun work for him to create this kind of designs.
The overall image for the interior of the Ra Cailum (and the other Earth Federation ships in general) was for it to be “straight-lined, regular and symmetric”. This visual theme was present not only in the bridges, corridors and civilian-use rooms, but also in the design for the seats.
The idea to have not just one, but two bridges – a regular one and a combat one – inside the Ra Cailum came directly from director Tomino, who, according to Ikeda, is actually knowledgable about the “real military”, and thus requested him to add the combatbridge in addition to the regular one used for navigation.
The Rewloola’s internals design
When it comes to the internals of the Neo Zeon‘s ships, the visual motif is opposite to the one for Earth Federation, prominently featuring curved lines. This visual trope was actually present since the original Mobile Suit Gundam, with the Zeon‘s Musai-class battleships. Ikeda explains how working on Gundam was something he wanted since the very beginning of his career, so perhaps he put “everything he wanted to do” in his work for CCA.
The Rewloola is characterized by the use of vertical space in the bridge, and the mobile suits deck features a more “organic” design as opposed to the “straight-lined one of the Earth Federation-side” of battleships. Coming up with these kind of differences for each military side was reportedly a “fun task”.
Lastly, Ikeda concludes his commentary talking about the realization of one of the last scenes towards the end of the movie. The scene he’s referring to is obviously the one where the T-shaped “psycho-frame sample flies away, leaving behind a trail of light”, with a 3D earth rotating in the back. As many of you may already know, that 3D model of the earth wasn’t in fact a 3D model at all, instead it was an actual sphere that was rotated and filmed on set. Ikeda had peeled off the surface of an actual, roughly 20cm wide, earth globe, then painted the sky, clouds and land on it himself. He’d been taking care of that same earth globe until “recently” (that is, sometime around 2020 or 2021), keeping it with him in his personal office.
Notes
An additional document full of notes and warnings about the various aspect of the production, including mechanical and character designs, backgrounds and animation itself, is also part of the production material collected in the Making of chapter of Complete Collection. Animation director Hidetoshi Omori explains some of the main points discussed in this document.
One interesting note director Tomino left specifically addressed to Omori himself was to stop using solid black shadows since as a result, the shape of the mecha itself becomes invisible or hard to grasp. Such a style of shading is just the “preference of adults”, and wasn’t allowed in Gundam, which was intended as a product aimed at all ages. Despite the warning, Omori ended up using solid shadows in Char’s Counterattack, but just in one scene, admittedly because it was indeed his own “preference”. The scene he’s referring to is the one in the second half of the movie, when the propeller tanks are detached from the α Azieru, and a shadow, outlined with solid-blacks, falls on the Jadg Doga.
Notes on how the explosions should look like by animation director Hidetoshi Omori
Animation director Omori contributed in writing some of the notes in the document himself, especially (and unsurprisingly) the ones related to the animation itself. An aspect he particularly focused on were the explosions. He explains, he’s always admired the explosions in the original Gundam, and when he had the chance to inquire Yoshikazu Yasuhiko on how they came about, the former character designer and animation director said that on his hand he really liked the explosions in Lupin the Third to the point he wanted to try something like that for himself. Up until that point, the explosions in anime were just a simple “boom-like” effect and Yasuhiko didn’t like that, so he tried to do something different. In a similar fashion, Omori wanted to create his own proper effects for the explosions, so he left some notes specifically in that regard.
Notes on how the fin funnel’s beams should look like by animation director Hidetoshi Omori
Always concerning the animation, but this time coming from director Tomino instead, are some notes about the difference in speed between the mobile suits and the funnels. The director wanted to emphasize and highlight the dynamism of the funnels, so Omori took care of all the scenes where the funnels appear himself. He explains, the finfunnels in particular have a different shape, and the position of their thrusters, being all “concentrated in one place”, greatly alters the way they move. The animation director was also very particular about the change in direction and how the funnels moved consequentially to firing a beam. Another important point Tomino put special attention in, was the fact that the finfunnels are a beam weapon, not a laser weapon, hence he wanted to emphasize the mass of the particles that were fired by the funnels. To achieve this kind of emphasis, Omori thought of casing a shadow on the muzzles of the funnels every time a beam was fired, since particles, as opposed to lasers, do cast a shadow. To highlight the fact that the beam of light traveled in one specific direction, as well as to further emphasize the beam’s speed, he had the opposite, outer side of the muzzle in the dark. However, Omori believes that at the time not many people understood his choice in this regard.
A note on how the clash between two beam sabers should look like by animation director Hidetoshi Omori
One last note, again written by Omori himself, is that when two beam sabers clash, the impact forms a sphere of energy. That is to show that the beam saber with the greater power between the two is canceling out the opponent’s beam. This is exactly what Char meant when he said “my saber is weaker than his?!” while fighting Amuro during the final sequence of the movie, and this same effect was used in the animation.
Before wrapping up, I’d like to write a sort of bibliography, listing all the sources (both internal and external) that I’ve used while writing and researching for this post.
One “internal” source was the aforementioned interview with director Tomino, and another one, as obvious as it sounds, was the Complete Collection of Official Records itself (which, by the way, I believe you still can get a copy of yourself if you look in the right places).
Lastly, a major source of both information and inspiration was The animation of Char’s Counterattack from Animétudes, a post I’ve made extensive use of especially to check the consistency of what I reported with the timeline of the production, specifically when writing Mamoru Nagano‘s section.
This concludes “The Making of Mobile Suit Gundam: Char’s Counterattack“; as I mentioned at the very beginning, it was my first time working on a project of this scale, and (expectedly) it’s the post that took me the longest to make on this blog, as well as the longest one to date in terms of word and characters count. That’s to say, I’m pretty satisfied with how it turned out. I hope this comes across as a useful and informative article to every fan or enthusiast, or everyone in general who’s researching on this movie.
Original interview from AnimateTimespublished on April 13th 2024, titled: “Including the new character Mayu Kuroe, I want to portray each charcater as a human ―『Hibike! Euphonium 3』Director Tatsuya Ishihara x Assistant Director Taichi Ogawa Interview|The interesting aspect of 『Eupho』is that, since many different situations are portrayed, it’s relatable from any perspective.”, original interviewer:Daisuke Marumoto; gengafrom Sakugabooru.
“Hibike! Euphonium 3” began airing on Sunday, April 7th. It’s the final installment of the greatly popular series about the youth of high school students devoted to the school’s Concert Band. It’s also the first TV series in 7 years and 3 months, since “Hibike! Euphonium 2”, and has already attracted a lot of attention with its first episode.
In this second part of the Animate Times Interview Series [the first part consisted of an interview with Tomoyo Kurosawa, Chika Anzai and Haruki Ishiya] we present you an interview with Kyoto Animation’s Director Tatsuya Ishihara and Assistant Director Taichi Ogawa! We asked Director Tatsuya Ishihara, who’s worked as a director (chief director and supervisor in some other works), and Assistant Director Taichi Ogawa, who directed “Hibike! Euphonium: Todoketai Melody” and worked as the assistant director for “Sound! Euphonium: Special Edition ~Ensemble Contest~” which screened in theaters August of last year, about the highlights of the series from now on, while also touching the contents of the first episode that just aired.
~ We can finally portray Kumiko properly. ~
— In this installment, Kumiko and the other main characters are third-year students, and the series is finallyheading towards its conclusion. What are your feelings in regard to that?
Ishihara: It’s something I’ve experienced several times up to this point, but when I’m working on a project, I start to feel like I’m living inside its world, so when a series I’ve been involved in ends, I feel like it’s almost the actual end of the world; it’s like a real sense of loss. But well, my work is still ongoing now, so I don’t feel like this yet (laughs).
Ogawa: I, rather than feeling desolated, once a work is over, instead of just being consumed by it, I’m concerned about whether or not that work was able to leave something in the hearts of the people who watched it. I’m sure everyone has those kind of works that always remain in their heart, and I think there’s a reason, or some deciding factors behind that. What that is differs from person to person, but I’m working hard to create works like that, and hope that I’m able to convey that “something” to the people who watch them.
— Oumae Kumimo, Kato Hazuki, Kawashima Midori and Kosaka Reina, who entered Kitauji High School in the first installment, have finally become third year students in this one. What kind of image do you want to portray of the four of them, now that they have grown?
Ishihara: I believe that growth is not about a person trying to change, but rather the changes in the environment around them. This time too, I believe that Kuimiko, Reina, Midori and Hazuki will change depending on the position each one of them will assume. It’s strange to say this when we’re the ones creating this work, but I don’t want (their growth) to feel artificial or contrived. I think to me it’s ideal when it’s like a simulation of sorts, where you have a particular setting where you throw in some characters with their personalities, and they start to act on their own. So it’s not like “I want to portray this character like this…” or something. But of course, everyone has grown.
Ogawa: The third year of high school is a time when everyone has to think of their future and other various things, so it was interesting depicting that aspect of it, and I think that’s one of the highlights.
— Compared to the change in transitioning between first and second year, the one between second and third year feels even more significant.
Ogawa: That’s right. When you’re a first-year, you only have seniors [“senpai”], then in second year you have both seniors and juniors [“kōhai”], and in third year you only have juniors. I think the differences between these states are fascinating and make you think.
Ishihara: I thought that the school system was a strict and stiff place, but if you look at it that way, it’s surprisingly not that bad, or rather it’s an interesting system. When you enter higher education like a university, even though you’re still a student, you’re basically almost an adult. As I was depicting the third year of high school, the period exactly prior to that, I felt that this time the relationship between Kumiko and Taki (Noboru)-sensei was pretty significant.
— So, her relationship with Taki-sensei, the advisor of the school Concert Band, as an adult who’s close to her, will be featured in the series.
Ishihara: Perhaps because she’s about to become an adult, Kumiko’s eyes are turned towards him. Anyways, if I say anything more about the four main character’s growth, it would end up being a spoiler (laughs).
Ogawa: That’s because you let everything out, Ishihara-san (laughs).
— Then, out of these four characters, which one’s growth was particularly easy to figure out, or which character would you like to draw the attention to?
Ogawa: In think the one I want to stand out the most is Kumiko, after all.
Ishihara: Yeah, you’re right.
Ogawa: Now that we’ve reached the third season, we can finally portray Kumiko properly. I believe that’s the biggest thing.
— At a roundtable discussion held before the first episode aired, Kurosawa Tomoyo-san, who plays the role of Kumiko, also said that this time too there are a lot of things to work hard on.
Ishihara: We really have to work hard all the time (laughs).
Ogawa: Kurosawa-san was really worried this time around, wasn’t she?
Ishihara: I was watching her as well, and felt that way too. Saying that Kumiko is feeling down would be misleading, but as the club’s president there are many things she has to worry about.
Ogawa: Kurosawa-san too seemed to feel exactly that.
Ishihara: I’d like to talk directly with Kurosawa-san and ask her how she actually felt about that (laughs).
~ Mayu Kuroe is not just a plot device. ~
— At the end of Episode 1, the new spotlight character Mayu Kuroe also made her appearance. Without entering the spoiler territory, tell me about her appeal or some aspects of how you’re depicting her.
Ogawa: As the creator of the work, Mayu is a very difficult character.
Ishihara: I, for starters, wanted to portray her in a cute way.
Ogawa: That’s a unanimous feeling (laughs). Though, the same goes for every other character… Actually, it may not be appropriate to use the word “character” here, but I wanted to portray “Mayu Kuroe” as a proper, independent and self-reliant person. There are times (in other works) where a new character suddenly appears, seemingly to rival the protagonist, but as things go on, ultimately they end up being no match for the main character at all (laughs).
— There are times where it feels like their [= thesecondary characters’] presence is long gone by the middle-point of the story (laughs).
Ogawa: I believe that kind of development is possible at times, due to the structure of a story, but that’s not the case for Mayu Kuroe. She’s a character that’s supposed to taste more strongly the more you chew it, so I hope you look forward to her. I think it’s gonna be a pretty controversial part, or rather, the way people who watch it will feel about it, will change depending on their standpoint and experiences. So, personally, I’m looking forward to seeing how everyone will feel about it.
Ishihara: Well, personally I like Mayu.
Ogawa: She’s gentle and cute, and her temperament is pretty tender. But I think just learning that the transfer student plays the euphonium is enough to make people a bit nervous (laughs). To put it simply, she’s a mysterious character, and I believe that how all that will unravel, and also how Kumiko will receive it, are one of the highlights of this story.
— Director Ishihara, you mentioned that you like Mayu, but what exactly do you like about her?
Ishihara: Well, a lot things (laughs). At first, I thought she was just a rival character to Kumiko, a mirror image of her. However, as he just explained, Ogawa-san really valued the human side of Mayu Kuroe, so I think she’s no longer just a plot device.
— At last year’s “New Information Presentation” when it was announced that Haruka Tomatsu-san would have played Mayu’s role, Tomatsu-san said that before the recordings for the first episode, Ishihara-san said to her that “Mayu truly is a difficult character”.
Ogawa: You brought up this topic pretty roughly (laughs).
Ishihara: I simply meant that, even though I said she’s a difficult character, if you try putting yourself in Mayu’s state of mind, you can understand her.
— So, she is not an alien-like incomprehensible person?
Ishihara: Yeah, exactly. How Club President Kumiko will deal with her is one of the main aspects, I think.
— Including the four close friends Suzuki Kamaya, Yayoi Kamiishi, Kaho Hariya and Sari Yoshii, new first-year students have joined the club. Tell me about their appeal and the way you depicted them.
Ishihara: I can’t help but empathize with Kumiko, so I end up seeing them from her perspective, but in that sense they’re a “somewhat troublesome and cute group” (laughs).
Ogawa: Troublesome but cute, that’s exactly it (laughs). Also, the four of them are often together, and when it comes to each one’s personality, it’s just like how I said before with Mayu, I wanted to portray each one of them as a proper human.
— Their relationship and interactions, with Suzume and Yayoi’s incomprehensible gags and Kaho easily laughing at them, is really cute. Is it difficult, on the contrary, to portray as entertaining gagsthat are confusing and hard-to-get?
Ishihara: But Kansai’s laughter is so infectious, isn’t it.
Ogawa: They’re like slip gags[すべり芸, basically, gags not meant to be “understood”,but rather to create an awkward atmosphere]. But Yayoi and Suzume are not making gags in order for others to get them; they simply let the words flow out as they feel. And then, to keep a good balance, Kaho’s there to laugh at them. Yayoi and Suzume sure are happy to make her laugh, but it’s not like they’re deliberately trying to achieve that result.
— So, Kaho too isn’t doing that for them either, she genuinely finds them funny and that’s why she laughs, right?
Ogawa: Exactly. And then there’s Sari, who, being well used to that situation, is there to put things back in order (laughs). The balance between these four is very interesting, and I’d like people to simply enjoy this indescribably joyful space.
~ I wanted the first episode to focus on the joy that “Eupho has begun!”. ~
— Tell me what important points and aspects you wanted the first episode, which aired the other day, to mainly focus on.
Ishihara: After all, since this is the beginning of the story, we placed great importance on the relationship between Kumiko, Shuichi (Tsukamoto) and Reina, who are now the leaders of the Concert Band.
— Assistant Director Ogawa, you were in charge of the storyboard and episode direction for the first episode.
Ogawa: Personally, it was my first time storyboarding and directing the first episode of a TV series, but above all, I wanted to make an episode I myself would have been exited to watch.
Ishihara: First episodes are tough; you also have to properly introduce the characters.
— First episodes tend to have lots of tasks that need to be addressed in them.
Ogawa: Sure enough there are those kind of tasks, or rather there are some aspects like the one of introducing the characters, but beyond that, I think the most important duty to me was to make it so that people would get immersed into its world. That’s where an episode director can really show off his skills… I did my best (laughs). As Ishihara-san said, the positions of Kumiko, Shuichi and Reina have changed significantly from before, so while properly showing their relationship, I also personally sought to convey the joy that “Eupho has begun!”.
Ishihara: Episode 1 had a special opening, and I think that it starting off with brass instruments was extremely exciting.
Ogawa: Thank you very much. Also, third-year high school students are somewhat special, but at the same time they really aren’t, don’t you agree?
Ishihara: Huh? I think they are pretty special? I did feel special, like “ah, I’m already a third-year”.
Ogawa: Well, of course there’s something special about it. I guess it’s that since it’s your third year experiencing high school life, you’re well used to it at that point. So, it’s indeed a special year, but in terms of school life and club activities, you’re the most used to it and can naturally fit in. I feel like at that point I was a little more conscious of that aspect as well.
~ Even for those who have never seen Eupho before, the third season will still be interesting. ~
— Was there a scene in particular you were especially focused on, in regard to the storyboard and direction of Episode 1?
Ogawa: I really put a lot of effort into the opening scene, which Ishihara-san also mentioned. Since it’s the very beginning of Season 3, I wanted to make something compelling that connected to a feeling of excitement. This kind of things are not decided or included in the script, so figuring out how to structure it by myself was the most difficult aspect of it.
— I heard that for the regular opening that will play from Episode 2 onwards, Director Ishihara was in charge of the storyboard and direction, just like for the ones for the first and second seasons.
Ishihara: I feel like that, when I was making it, I focused primarily on how to show Kumiko’s position. However, looking at the finished product, it felt like a look back at the past, it was a little heartrending. I wasn’t really conscious of this aspect (laughs). Also, if you watch the opening again after watching every episode up to the last one, I believe you’ll realize what it’s all about.
— You’re saying that if you watch it again after the final episode, the way you feel about it will change?
Ishihara: I think so. Also, TRUE-san (whose real name is Miho Karasawa) who wrote the lyrics for the opening song (“ReCoda”), as always, truly understood what this work is all about. That’s why I feel like, compared to the lyrics of all the Eupho’s songs up to this point, this time they have a little different perspective, and it might be fun if you watch the series while thinking what this thing I just said means.
— Lastly, I ask you to give a message to the all readers who love “Hibike! Euphonium”, hinting some highlights from Episode 2 onwards.
Ogawa: I think you will enjoy it even more if you pay attention to the growth of every character. Also, I have the feeling that if you watch the episodes two or three times, you’ll be able to see different sceneries each time. I think there are many different ways to look at it, but there are also some things that you won’t be able to understand until you watch it to the end, so I’d be glad if you could watch it without missing anything. It’s been like this with all the previous series as well, albeit not always being about fun things (laughs). All in all, I think we were able to create a really good depiction of youth, so I hope you enjoy it until the end.
Ishihara: As I said at the beginning, I feel somewhat sad thinking that a work I’ve been working on for nearly 10 years has reached its first chapter. However, I’m grateful that I was able to depict this story all the way to its end, and since I think the viewers too feel the same way as I do, to all the people who have been watching since the first season, I hope you enjoy it till the very end. I also think that even for those who have never seen Euoho before, the third season will still be interesting. Anyways, since there’s the opportunity to watch the previous works on many different platforms, I believe you will enjoy it even more if you watch the first and second seasons first. As mentioned earlier, the third season becomes more interesting the more times you watch it; talking out of our experience, the dubbing process started around the time we finished making (the storyboard etc. for) the final episode, and during the recordings I ended up crying at scenes I didn’t expect to (laughs). So, I’ve first-handedly experienced how it gets more interesting when you watch the beginning again after knowing the ending. I’m sure everyone will feel this way too.
Ogawa: It’s like, being supplemented with many different information, you’re able to understand some things better by yourself. There are times when things unexpectedly come to your mind. So many different situations and positions are depicted in Eupho, and at times I thought that if I were to put myself in some of the characters’ shoes, I would have been to see things the same way they do. Eupho has been this kind of work since Season One, and in the making of it I was once again reminded that that’s what makes it such an interesting work.
When it comes to “Pokémon” and “animation“, I bet everyone agrees that the most interesting combinations of the two in recent years have been the various web series promoting the release of the new main-line games, starting with Shingo Yamashita‘s Hakumei no Tsubasa (Twilight Wings) for Sword and Shield, then Yuki Hodokishi Futaai (Hisuian Snow) for Legends Arceus, and lastly, Houkago no Breath (Paldean Winds) for Scarlet and Violet.
I’m a bit late to the party here since Houkago no Breath, the one short series I’m going to cover in this post (as you might already have inferred from the title), came out quite some time ago, but having watched it just recently gave me the perfect excuse to write about it (and hopefully I’ll find the time to come back to the other two aforementioned series and put together some thoughts to share here as I’m really fond of them too).
As usual, I’ll try to break down the series episode by episode, by highlighting and commenting on the aspects that caught my eye the most, and in spite of its short running time, being, well, a short web series consisting of 4 episodes, each around 10 minutes in length, there’s a lot of neat details and visual choices to appreciate here, perhaps also thanks to the completely different production circumstances this kind of projects have, as opposed to the much tighter environments of the average TV anime production.
Episode 1
The series director for Houkago no Breath is RyouheiTekeshita, who unsurprisingly also storyboarded the first episode. And I said “unsurprisingly” because the episode starts off with some intricate POV cuts from the perspective of a small Gimmighoul and a sequence of dynamic camera work showcasing the lively region of Paldea and its inhabitants, human and not. One thing this immersive perspectives and camera movements definitely succeed in, is making the world feel alive and engaged, suggesting the cohesion and balance between people and Pokémons, and the integration of the formers in the latter’s every-day lives.
The story follows three original characters, appointed by the principal to make a video to promote and “showcase the splendor of the Academy“. The group, consisting of Ohara, Aliquis, and Houma, is presented in way that even visually hardly leaves any space for interpretations: unlike the world they live it, they lack cohesion.
From left to right: Aliquis, Ohara and Houma
Being positioned at opposite sides and depths in the frame, their lack of involvement with one another is pretty apparent, and thus the use of physical position and strategic framing is established as a major visual theme of this series from its very beginning stages. It’s in fact just a few cuts after this one that another instance of expressive framing foreshadows the contents of the next episode, and also ties back to the idea of our main characters lacking connections, not only between themselves, but also with others as well, as the group of students (which Nemo is part of) who are having fun in the background is isolated from everything else by the frame of the window (and furthermore, in contrast with the previous shot of our main trio, those three are all physically very close, facing directly towards one other).
It’s within this hopeless-seeming context that we’re introduced to the main theme of this episode: the burden of expectations. Ohara, through whose perspective we’re experiencing the current events, is a flute player in the school orchestra, whose conductor is none other than her own father. It’s not hard to imagine what this is leading up to. The expectations on her shoulders (being also appointed to perform a flute solo at the next concert), are crushing her and her passion for music; the only light able to bring her out of this pressing situation being her companion Pokémon Fuecoco (Hogator). And it’s exactly thanks to the little creature’s efforts recovering her scratch-covered flute, that in an attempt to run away from the unpleasantness she feels, she had tossed off a cliff at Mt. Nappé, where she ventured with the excuse of the Paldean traditional “treasure hunt”, that she indeed finds her true treasure right in her bond with Fuecoco; a bond that’s able to reignite her passion for music and playing the flute.
Moving on to Episode 2, the continuity in core themes carries on, as after a flashy and dynamic battle scene, we’re now following Aliquis in his journey discovering what bonds really mean to him. Having lost his battle against Nemo, his ambitions of becoming the strongest trainer are cornering and oppressing him (as effectively conveyed in this suffocating shot). Ultimately, he’s so unable to find a solution to his lack of strength that his insecurities push him so far as to conveniently lay all the blame on his companion Pokémon Meowscarada (Masquernya), lashing out on her in the most harsh of fashions (accompanied with some great use of negative space, as in the shot above).
It’s finally time for his return game against Nemo, and now that he’s cornered not only by his own ambition but by his opponent on the field as well, it’s once again through a physical medium that we see the realization of how important bonds truly are; Aliquis tries to reach for the Pokéball containing Meowscarada, but in its stead he finds one of the spherical, stuffed sweets that he and his companion are so fond of, an important symbol of their relationship and growth (as previously shown in a flashback). Filled with guilt for what he’d said not long before, and also overflowing in a newly discovered resilience, he desperately calls out to Meowscarada who makes her appearance in a rather flashy way; in the beautifully, actually dark environment, the shining and flamboyant Terastallizationlooks even more bright an mighty (also worth of note is how the the synchronization between the two is conveyed by the layout of the close-up shot, with each of them occupying a parallel and equal amount of space in the frame), and the final stretch of the battle between the two trainers begins, while the episode, instead, ends, leaving us with a cliffhanger.
Episode 3
Aliquis has actually lost to Nemo again, but that’s hardly of any importance, since this recent experience made him realize that his bonds are what his strength finds its very roots in, and much like Ohara after the events of the first episode, he’s now ready to dedicate himself to the new challenge that awaits our three main characters.
It’s the third one, Houma, however, who still needs to understand where to find the resolve he lacks, or more specifically, what his role is in this word where everyone else seems to have already found their own and proved themselves in some capacity. That much is true even in the smaller scope of this team working on the promotional video for the academy, where Houma is the only one of the three being left out (as conveniently reminded by the clever framing in the above shot).
His own little adventure is much more direct in its approach compared to the other two’s, as Houma decides to join the supposedly dangerous and nefarious Team Star in order to get some scoop on them and gain the position and respect he craves for within the academy. All the energy and zeal he poured into this daring endeavor of his though, didn’t seem to have paid off at first, since the people at Team Star revealed to be a kind and compassionate group, quite the opposite of the wicked image people have of them. It’s again thanks to the companion Pokémon, Quaxly (Kuwassu), who evolved into Quaxwell (Welkamo) during the time they spent together with Team Star‘s Caph Squad, that the adventure actually bears its fruits, as Houma realizes that what he was truly striving for was already there by his side the whole time, a true bond of mutual care and understanding. Through the self-confidence arising from the strength of his now fully realized bond, he’s finally able to fit into the same frame (both metaphorically and physically) with the two other main characters, as the next day there’s no distance between the three of them, in direct contrast to how this episode, and the show in general, had started. Purposeful and deliberate use of position in the frame doesn’t get more expressive than this.
Episode 4
The last episode, Episode 4, also being the last in terms of length clocking in at just below 8 minutes, starts off in an unusual way compared to what we got used to with the other three. Instead of following a specific member of the cast (or any of the three for that matter), we’re presented with a generic student sitting at his desk, picking up his Rotom Phone to watch what seems to be a newly published video on the academy’s website; that’s right, that’s exactly the promotional video our three main characters have been working on the past three episodes.
A beautiful montage of footage depicting Paldea‘s wilderness, showcasing, of course, Pokémons in their natural habitats (including some really cool cuts with great photography at play) brings us back to the very first sequence in this series (albeit without Takeshita‘s signature camera work this time) portraying all the harmony and appeal of this highly involved world, alternating with footage of trainers intent on battling with each other, all accompanied by a harmonious orchestral soundtrack. In short, it’s the result of Ohara, Aliquisand Houma‘s combined efforts to showcase the true splendor of their region Paldea, of their academy, and alsoof the world of Pokémon in general.
The video goes on until around the half-way mark of the episode, first with Ryme‘s live performance on stage, and then with Nanjamo (Iono)’s intervention, giving a brief introduction to the region’s Gym-leaders.
Nanjamo from Episode 4
When it comes to the technical side of things, it’s impossible not to mention the absurd quality and consistency of this character acting sequence animator Kaito Tomioka crafted for hisbelovedNanjamo. The insane amount of drawings makes it so that there’s always something moving in every frame and truly captures her energetic and electric personality. The way the movements’ inertia is taken into account really gives volume to the whole animation. And beyond that, I even had to cut the clip to around a third of its length since it was so long the file size was surpassing the upload limits; this goes to say that with this (relatively) short cut, which by itself is already outstanding enough, you’re just getting a taste of how incredible (and incredibly fun to watch) the whole sequence is. Truly a remarkable work.
Final sequence of Episode 4
To close off this episode (and thus the whole series as well), the main trio is once again reunited in that same classroom (this time again, they’re all close to one another), enthusiastically yakking about how well received the video they put together was, highlighting how everyone poured something about them in the making of it, also resulting in their own personal growth. Not only the bonds with their Pokémons were strengthened thanks to this ensemble work, but a new bond within the three has also been born, with Ohara, Aliquisand Houma seeing each other off until their next quest together, and then moving forward, each to their new adventures.
It’s always super fun to check out these web series and appreciate their quirkiness and particular attention to details, and all the passion you can feel the people who worked on them poured into every single sequence. They’re also relatively short, which is a huge advantage both as a consumer who likes to rewatch stuff many times, and as a writer, since my thoughts on them can be fully covered within a single article like this one. I really hope to come back to other content in this format (whether related to Pokémon or not) and spend some time writing about it again sometime.
Original interview from Animage (April 2024 issue), genga by Yoshihiko Matsumura.
~ We crafted it together while figuring it out. ~
— I’ve heard from the members of the cast that they tried to feel more natural in their acting, how did you decide on this direction for their performance?
Saito: I didn’t specifically request for them to act in a more natural way; personally, I listened to what they proposed, and we crafted it while figuring it out. It wasn’t necessarily a direction I gave, but I remember saying something along the lines of “I don’t know who these words are gonna resonate with, so I want you to do it conscientiously”. Rather than having direct and powerful lines, I felt it was a work whose words could smoothly move you.
Hata: That’s right, the original work itself has a superb choice of words, so there was no need to exaggerate the acting to convey the message. I think that’s what the cast interpreted as “to act naturally”.
Saito: All the cast members were people with great sensitivity, so I was the one to learn a lot from them.
— I would like to ask you about what you particularly paid attention to when directing the main characters. Let’s start with Frieren.
Saito: Frieren isn’t a very expressive character, and her lines too are rather abrupt most of the times; I think that’s because she doesn’t want to give off a bad impression and just wants to be liked. So I told (Atsumi) Tanezaki-san that Frieren conveys more human warmth through her mild voice than her facial expressions.
Hata: Because of Frieren’s personality, and the fact that, being an elf, she lives much longer than humans, I thought she would end up sounding detached and cold. But she was well conscious of the balance in her output, despite her expression being a poker face all the time she does have emotions, she wants to express them but she’s certainly not a character that puts lots of effort in talking.
— How about Fern? I think she’s a character who carries human potential and possibilities on her shoulders.
Hata: Stark is like that too, but Fern lives with the human perception of time and is present in the show since she was little, so, while casting, we looked for someone who could express her growth in a realistic way. I had the impression that (Kana) Ichinose-san’s cool and determined voice was really in sync with Fern.
Saito: I’ve worked with Ichinose-san several times, and I believed she could really fit into Fern’s character. To Ichinose-san and (Chiaki) Kobayashi-san, who plays the role of Stark, I didn’t give any direction on how to craft their characters.
Hata: During the recording, Kobayashi-kun payed attention to Tanezaki-san and Ichinose-san’s performances as he acted, and thanks to that, I feel that the balance between the three of them was really good.
Saito: He himself said that as they started recording he could feel that the right atmosphere between Frieren and Fern was already present in the recording room. I think Stark too has a caring side, or rather, he’s good at reading the room, so they too were a good match.
— What did you pay particular attention to when directing Himmel, who appears in almost every flashback scene?
Saito: Himmel is not only cool, but also an interesting and approachable person, and that’s how I wanted to depict him, representing these characteristics of him.
Hata: To Frieren, her journey with Himmel’s party is the basis of her current journey understanding humans. In a sense, Himmel is the representation of humanity. Most of the times when he appears in Frieren’s memories, he doesn’t look like a hero or a savior, but rather, he feels human. If one’s heroism can been switched “on” and “off”, she remembers only the times when Himmel’s was “off”. That’s why we asked (Nobuhiko) Okamoto-san to soften his acting a little.
— It is true that when Frieren recalls Himmel, it’s often in mundane and everyday contexts.
Hata: There are some scene where he’s actually actively working, like fighting demons (laughs). However, Frieren is currently becoming aware and realizing the meaning of all her interactions with Himmel when he was “off”; I think this is a key aspect of this work.
Saito: Also, I think Himmel’s vanity for his handsomeness is a complex feeling, on one hand, it’s something that he lets out because he’s aware of his position as a hero, and on the other, he’s also saving himself by doing do.
— You mean that he’s saving his actualself?
Saito: Himmel himself said something similar to this, living an honest life and helping others is something that will return back to you and connect you with the future; I think this is what he really feels and holds on to. Then there’s also the part of him that just wants to look cool in Frieren’s eyes (laughs). But I believe that’s just his way of showing himself in public, and not some mere narcissism. He clearly understands that his and Frieren’s perceptions of time are different, and there’s a hint of sadness in him as well; I think he’s a character that can’t be taken too naively.
— In the currently airing “First-Class Mage Exam Arc” a lot of new characters have made their appearance.
Hata: I think that in the Exam Arc there are a lot of characters that stand out for their symbolic meaning, but as the story progresses, it becomes clear how every one of them is carrying their own life on their shoulders. I wanted to carefully portray these characters in a way they won’t just end up standing out for being flashy or funny.
Saito: They appeared all at once, so at first I had a hard time grasping all the characters; there are also some of them who play an active role in episodes beyond what this anime will cover, and the more you dig into it, the more flavors you get out of them. It was fun thinking of how to depict the way they act now, taking into account their future developments.
Hata: All the cast members actively looked deeply into their roles, and I feel they really got into their characters.
Saito: There weren’t many characters we had trouble casting for, it went quite smoothly. Kanne is the type of character (Azumi) Waki-san is known to be good at, so I didn’t have to give her that many directions for her dubbing. (Sayumi) Suzushiro-san usually acts the roles of lively characters, but on the contrary, I thought she was a good fit for Lawine. Lawine’s cynicism is kind of defiant, or rather, she gives off the impression she’s like a child being a little too hard on herself. I thought Suzushiro-san might be able to bring out Lawine’s bold front.
Hata: When it comes to casting, I believe Serie was the most difficult one.
Saito: It was rather troublesome.
Hata: Serie is a character full of mysteries even in the original work, you know. It’s that type of character you even wonder whether it’s male or female, or neither of the two. We couldn’t quite figure out who Serie was, so it was a difficult character.
— What was the deciding factor in casting Mariya Ise-san?
Saito: While we were looking for candidates for the role of Serie, Hata-san proposed the name of Ise-san.
Hata: Among the staff members everyone had their own ideas, we couldn’t agree even on the type of voice. We didn’t know what kind of person Serie was, but on the contrary, that meant she could have become any kind of person from that point on; that’s why I thought Ise-san might be a good fit.
Saito: It’s the same for Frieren, elves as characters have an aloof side to them, but also are a bit inattentive, it feels like they do have a weak spot somewhere. Serie too is by no means flawless, there’s a cute side to her too. I believe Ise-san’s acting is the perfect for that compromise.
~ It’s a show with some not-so-realistic breaks in it. ~
— I think the comedy in this work is also impressive, it makes you giggle, and the more lively gags are exquisite too. Are there any aspects in this regard you particularly focused on when directing?
Saito: Hmm, I wonder… (laughs). It’s hard to put into words, but it’s not like I consciously tried to make it funny, it’s intrinsically amusing and that’s what I tried to do. Also, when I’m directing comedic scenes, I always think of my sister, or rather, I always feel that “if it makes my family laugh, then it is funny”.
Hata: Generally speaking, I believe the behaviors of characters in this work are very conscientiously thought, and they feel real. The comical scenes too are not symbolical, and don’t disrupt the natural flow of the play. It’s not like we intentionally hold back with the direction to make it funny in the little details, but it feels like that’s what happened as a result.
Saito: There are scene where we made Stark raise his voice to make the gag stick out, but fundamentally it’s funny because everyone is so worked up. I think what makes the gags funny is that the earnest feeling behind them usually results in unexpected outcomes.
— But that time in Episode 3 when Fern says “Gulp” out loud was a direction you gave on set, wasn’t it.
Hata: Yeah (laughs).
Saito: Well, it was sort of a gamble. I didn’t know whether it was fun or not, but I wanted to do it. Frieren [the show t.n.] could have been made in a more realistic way perhaps, but I wanted to make it a work with some breaks in it. I wanted to show the audience a work where you could hear “Gulp” said out loud.
— I heard that the soundtrack for the first four episodes that aired as the 2 hours special and for some of the other episodes as well, was composed in film scoring [composed while watching the footage t.n.] to match the images on screen.
Hata: That’s right. For the whole first special episode, I had the soundtrack composed in film scoring, and after that, as anextra, I had it done that same way for some other crucial scenes too. As a result, the soundtracks for the final stages of Episode 8, the scene of Himmel’s ring in Episode 14 and the dance scene in Episode 15 were all composed that way (laughs).
Saito: (Laughs). In Episode 8, Frieren, Fern and Stark take action separately, so, in order to reach the climax, I had them composing a pretty long track.
Hata: I asked to arrange it in a way that, when it changes tracks adapting to the scenes and dialogue lines, it would feel like one big flow.
Saito: For Episode 14, we were thinking of making it play along the flashback between Frieren and Himmel, but then I decided to build up the climax from the moment Frieren goes up into the sky, so that’s where the soundtrack starts playing.
Hata: For the dance scene in Episode 15, I didn’t want a usual ball-like track; I wanted to depict the sense of distance between Fern and Stark. Considering all these subtle and complex adjustments we requested for, (Call) Evan-san was the right person for the job. Even for the initial film scoring, he did a great job of depicting Frieren’s slight change in mood and Fern’s body temperature changing.
— Is there any track composed in film scoring for the “First-Class Mage Exam Arc” as well?
Saito: No. In the second cour the drama has more continuity to it, so instead of using film scoring to make a single episode memorable, I chose to use single tracks in order to convey the flow of the story.
Hata: In the Exam Arc, a lot of mages make their appearance and battles are more frequent, but that’s not what I wanted to emphasize, in fact, I thought of it in a way not to make it too catchy. Even in the first cour there were some bloody episodes and battles with demons. What I wanted to focus on was the story of Frieren, Fern and Stark’s journey, or that of Frieren becoming more caring of humans.
— I see. Then, what aspects did you consider when selecting the tracks?
Hata: The emphasis on following the scenes’ mood and feel might have been a little different from what you see in other works. I think Evan-san’s speciality is writing songs that are able to touch people’s heartstrings, so this time too I asked him to write tracks to fit not what was happening, but rather the emotions and feelings of the scenes. Even from Episode 5 on, I chose the tracks that were in sync with the emotions I felt. and used the same track for the other scenes that made me feel the same way.
~ Direction techniques not to depict emotions in a tasteless way. ~
— Anime original scenes, like the cut in Episode 1 when Frieren looks at her ring during Himmel’s funeral, or in Episode 14’s when Frieren makes a surprised expression when Himmel kneels, have become hot topics.
Saito: There are a lot of elements scattered throughout the original work, and all these points are often connected in a line. And in the anime adaptation as well, I wanted to convey the feeling of these points being connected, I wanted to make it so that not only were the episodes enjoyable one by one, but the series as a whole formed one single story. Adding the ring cut in Episode 1 was also meant to hint at the development in Episode 14.
— This was already brought up in the cast interview, but by paralleling the key visual for the first cour to the cover of the first volume of the original work, I had the impression that making Himmel look towards Frieren in the KV depicted his feelings for her in an even more powerful way.
Saito: Rather than making it feel more powerful, the idea was to make it more “noticeable”. Personally, I think that anime, unlike manga, is fundamentally more fleeting, it’s a one-shot deal. Unlike manga, that you can read at your own pace and re-read over and over, I believe that with anime, that cannot be watched at one’s own pace, the opportunities to go back and watch it again aren’t that many. That’s why, while making it, I wanted to include things that would catch people’s attention and stick out to them when they watch it. The design of the KV too is one of these things.
— The sound of the bells when Himmel puts the ring on Frieren in Episode 14 was impactful as well.
Saito: That was an idea of Episode 14’s episode director and storyboard artist (Shinya) Iino-san.
— What was the intention behind it?
Saito: It’s just the chime of the city’s time signal, so I think the interpretation is up to the viewer. This is something that Hata-san has mentioned but, there aren’t many words that hint at romantic elements in this work to begin with.
Hata: I noticed this while reading the original work, but the kanji for “love” is never used even once. The same goes for expressions like “I love…” [in a romantic way t.n.].
Saito: Just the time they explain that the meaning of the mirrored lotus in the flower language is “eternal love”, and that’s about it.
Hata: That’s right. Personally, I hope it’s because there’s something planned for the future in relation to that.
Saito: Therfore, whether or not Himmel has romantic feelings for Frieren is, after all, up to interpretation. For the scene where he gives her the ring, I focused on what was happening rather than the emotional side of it. To expose those feelings in the anime adaptation seemed tasteless.
Hata: The original work isn’t concluded yet, it’s still in the process of building things up. Considering Frieren is the main character, the story may go on many hundreds of years in the future. I believe the contrast between the different perceptions of time of elves and humans too is an interesting aspect of the original work, so, as I was getting involved in this work, I internalized an elf-like perception of time and might have slowed down the tempo a bit in some parts.
— In a scene in Episode 17, whereas in the original work Stark carries Fern on his shoulders, he carries her in his arms instead, why was it changed that way?
Saito: That was because Stark carries his axe on his back, so… (laughs).
Hata: (Laughs).
— So, it wasn’t a depiction of Stark’s growth or something like that (laughs).
Saito: I just thought Stark would do it that way, I didn’t mean to add any particular meaning to it. Well, it’s more gentlemanlike of him to carry her that way, isn’t it (laughs).
— Also, it’s a minor detail, but I think in the anime, the farewells convey more a feeling of gratitude.
Saito: Like at the end of Episodes 11 and 17, right? I made those scenes focusing on the flow of the emotions, not for the sake of drama. Besides, in Frieren, encounters and farewells with people are something that’s constantly being depicted. I think that in a sense, it’s right, or rather natural, to end things with a farewell.
— Lastly, a massage to all the readers that are supporting the anime?
Hata: This work has a lot of static and dynamic parts, and it feels like the words and lines are chosen very carefully. I think that lines that become cues to notice something, or subtle changes in facial expressions, or the drama where, at first glance, nothing seems to be happening, but underneath, the emotions are moving greatly, are the fascinating and appealing aspects of this work. I believe we were able to gain this much support thanks to the viewers carefully paying attention and not overlooking all this.
Saito: In the original work, you can understand and notice new things as you re-read it, so as the creator of the anime, there are several things I’m really glad I haven’t failed to notice. I was quite nervous that if I was missing something, it would have been some serious trouble (laughs).
Hata: (Laughs). There are some scenes where the lines can be conveyed properly without necessarily playing a track in the background. Also, another feature of this work is its loose and relaxed portrayal of the passage of time, and I think that too is an aspect people will enjoy.
Saito: Earlier I mentioned the connections between past and present in this series, and Fern’s growth being one instance of these. Up until now, Frieren has passed many things on to Fern, but the climax shows Fern achieving something by herself. I put effort into it, and hope it will be an emotional ending for those who have watched over Fern since her childhood. I’d be really happy if you payed attention to what Fern has gained as she grew.
It’s nothing new how incredibly polished and consistent Sousou no Frieren has been all the way since its first few episodes, so it’s to no one’s surprise that the last episode of this ambitious two consecutive cours project was remarkably good as well, to the point it might seem redundant or even effortless to write about it. And that might really be the case, actually, but I think that encapsulating the core values and themes of this entire adaptation (and story) in 24 minutes of animation to conclude a majestic 28 episodes long journey was no simple feat, and yet it was surely achieved in the best possible fashion, so much so that it does, indeed, deserve to be written about.
That being said, I’m in no way qualified to write a full-fledged review of Frieren‘s 28th episode, and any attempt to do so will most likely result in a pretentious mess of an article. So, instead of doing that, in this article I’ll be focusing on what caught my attention the most while watching the episode for the first time: Keiichirou Saitou‘s storyboard.
While I’m yet too unexperienced to write about one’s “style”, I can definitely provide some of my insights on certain scenes and shots and what tools they use to convey specific feelings or ideas in a visual way.
One of the aspect where Frieren shines the most, especially when it comes to this anime adaptation, is certainly the characterization of the space around the characters, with special attention to how and where they’re are placed and framed. Frieren‘s world needs to be perceived as alive and dynamic, even outside of the character’s perspective; time passes and leaves its marks even if we’re not there to see it. In short, the space where the characters move in is not just a static, background entity, rather, it has an actual presence and a distinctive role which needs to be portrayed visually as well. And it’s these almost contemplative shots, where the characters are immersed and engulfed in what’s around them instead of being the bigger presence in the frame themselves, that convey this idea so subtly. Suddenly they’re not the focus anymore, and are instead just one of the tiny elements of this grater, larger world, simply acting inside of it as many others are.
There are many other shots that rely on this kind of subtle and clever framing throughout the episode, highlighting, and more importantly embedding in it, this core theme of space.
Balancing the presence of the characters and the background in a frame is not the only interesting aspect of it, the (visual) relation between the characters and the background elements around them has a lot to tell for itself as well.
For example, just a quick glance at this frame will immediately make clear whose vision on magic has been more flourishing over the years; which great mage has put the most effort in understanding humanity, between Frieren and Serie. Framing the two of them at such an angle that the flowerbed appears bigger and thicker on Frieren‘s side and thinner on Serie‘s.
Before moving on to the next section, let’s stick with “space” for a bit and talk about another scene that caught my attention: Frieren‘s and Lenren‘s confrontation. Or rather, the moments before their actual confrontation.
Space is not only about the physical distance or placement of characters and elements in the background, but can as well be used to describe and portray the figurative distance between characters’s minds and feelings. This scene does a particularly good job at that, with some very clever storyboard at play. The feeling of uneasiness (or that at least something not good is about to happen) is already present from the moment Lenren appears (aided by the dialogue he had with Serie in the previous episode), but the almost jarring close-up shots on the eyes of the two characters certainly help escalating the ominous tone of the scene. Midway through their dialogue, the entire space in the frame is suddenly filled up with the eyes of Frieren first and Lenren second, cutting out everything else that was previously present in the frame; an intimate shot that abruptly nullifies the distance between us and the character’s true feelings and emotion in that moment, and in doing so also cuts Stark out of the scene (there’s no close-up eye shot of his), since he cannot see nor feel what the two mages are really seeing.
Space is a recurring theme in the whole series, but it’s definitely not the only one, and even more definitely, not the main one. The one topic that has been extensively present throughout Frieren as a whole, being the major thematic element of the story, is of course, time. The passage of time and its outcomes, to be precise.
Saitou has already proven his ability to impactfully portray this concept in the previous episodes he storyboarded (look no further than the very first episode of the series), so it’s only natural for it to shine in this last episode as well. What I particularly liked about episode 28 though, is how seamless and dynamic the transitions between present and past were.
Although it was really well done, featuring an especially great art direction (which already is a major strength of Frieren‘s production as a whole), I’m leaving Wirbel‘s backstory aside to focus the attention on two specific scenes, one of which has got to be one of the best and most creative transitions I’ve seen in recent memory.
Using a simple physical movement to transition between both space and time sounds like a really clever and compelling idea, and it really is clever and compelling even in practice. Initiating the transition to a flashback, so a “movement in time”, with an actual “movement in space” with Frieren jumping down the wall she landed on, transferring her momentum to a snappy cut to the actual flashback as her boot touches the ground, is one of those little touches that prove how deeply refined this show is even in small details; the effort to design such an interesting way to transition to a flashback instead of relying on more conventional methods (let’s say, for example, a simple fade-in) conveys nothing but a heartfelt passion towards both the source material and the medium of animation.
Comparison between the two frames where the transition happens
Moving on to a more proper representation of the passage of time, the last scene before the credits start rolling is the perfect example. We’ve certainly seen something like this many times before throughout the previous episodes (especially in the first cour), but a parallel between the present and the past for Frieren is the utmost perfect way to end this series, both thematically (or course) and as its “visual identity”.
When I said “seamless transition” before, this is exactly what I was talking about; the immersion of Frieren as she recalls her memories is beautifully portrayed as the background transitions to the one where the flashback takes place, while Frieren herself is the only element on the screen that does not change. This is made even more clear with the shot of the hero’s party directly paralleling the one of Frieren, Fern and Stark of a few cuts prior. The connection between past and present is strongly present in Frieren‘s narrative as much as it is visually, showing how much (and yet, at times, how little) things have changed; these kind of parallel shots have been a recurring visual element throughout the series and are indeed very effective at depicting that.
Hearing Himmel sharing his words of wisdom for one last time feels somewhat nostalgic already, but after a quick overview on how some of the other characters are going on with their lives as the ending theme plays, we’re back to the present, where our main party sets off for a new journey.
It’s gonna be hard to fill the gap Sousou no Frieren left in my weekly anime consumption, but at least its final episode was truly remarkable as much as the whole series was, encapsulating all its core elements on both a thematic and visual perspective. Really a delightful journey, packed with soul and passion, like we haven’t experienced in a while, but let’s keep this goodbye quick, since as Himmel said, it would be embarrassing when we (if ever) get to meet again.
We’re back in the Imperial Court, following yet again another day in Maomao‘s daily life as Jinshi‘s maidservant, and a new task awaits our quirky main character: putting her make-up knowledge on the line to make her master look unrecognizable.
Such a direct focus on the character’s looks for this episode surely requires special attention to the quality of the drawings, in order to make the most out of the character models to serve the story’s needs to make Jinshi look like a totally different person. That’s reflected in the very good corrections and animation direction work (especially in the A Part) that’s caught my eye while first watching Kusuriya no Hitorigoto‘s Episode #17.
Episode #17 – Jinshi & Maomao
As Miss Maomao and servant Jishi walk out of the Imperial Court together, the episodes goes on with some amusing dialogues and character interactions (it was pretty funny to see Jinshi all excited to play a role opposite to his usual one) until we ultimately reach the Red Light District. This is where things start to regain their intensity, as Jinshi starts to ask his highly unpleasant questions for someone who’s lived most of her life in a renowned brothel, Maomao‘s demeanor changes completely (followed by a close up shot of her sharp eyes, for the first time throughout this episode), and so does the lightning of the scene, since we’re now almost past twilight.
A very cleverly storyboarded sequence follows, with Maomao ably building up her answer, describing what it is that gives value to a courtesan.
As the desired answer finally comes out of her mouth, the feeling that pieces are slowly falling into place exactly how he didn’t want them to is beautifully portrayed by the absence of sound (and, for that matter, of people in the background, as both Maomao and Jinshi are now completely alone, detached from the blurred-out background) and the last, unsettling shot with its very expressive use of negative space to end the episode.
Episode #17 – Last shot
Following the return to the Red Light District, Episode #18 starts off exactly where we left last episode, and after separating two character’s path for the day, it shifts into a beautifully eerie dream sequence, abruptly closed off, to set the mood for today’s story.
We then follow Maomao dealing with the daily chores of someone who just got back home after a while, and as the welcoming mood of the Verdigris House starts to fade, we’re greeted with what perhaps is, in terms of creativity and expressiveness, one of the best sequences in the entire show so far. The color design is certainly the highlight of this flashback sequence on the mysterious woman in the annex, who Maomao is taking care of; dim blue tones are used to set the main motive of the scene, conveying the idea of a cold, sad memory (together with the heavy rain outside as Luomen enters the building) and red is once again used as the sole accent color, to highlight the courtesan’s make-up as well as the marks of her illness – the Red Light District being the cause of both.
For Maomao, immersed in this memory of the past, the Verdigris House is also a familiar and warm place, and it’s indeed thanks to her big sisters inviting her in for a hot bath (where she is now actually immersed, this time in water) that she’s able to come to terms with it (at least for the time being), and the mood enlightens once again.
Episode #18 – Maomao in the annex
We’re now back in the Outer Palace, where the plot starts moving again, in the form of our main characters’s thinking about each other, Maomao with her inner monologue – truly the “Kusuriya no Hitorigoto” – and Jinshi, with his exchange with Gaoshun, all connected by nothing other than the mysteries surrounding the maidservant’s (adoptive) father.
It’s in this moment that Lakan makes his (unpleasant) appearance once again in Jinshi‘s office, and the sense of oppression and uneasiness that his presence brings along is, once again, visually conveyed via low-angled shots. The episode is then brought to an end with Jinshi notifying Maomao that a certain someone is interested in seeing her, and the delivery of her reaction to this irksome news is unsettling to say the least: a great and well-thought use of time, paired with the striking contrast between a very open and two very close-up shots of Maomao makes us jolt as much as Jinshi. There’s no need for words at all for him to understand her answer to that invitation.
Moving on to last week’s episode, Episode #19, after an intro that focuses on Jinshi‘s feelings on what happened the day before, we’re back following Maomao in her mystery-solving journey inside the Outer Palace; the mood seems to be back to an overall lighter state, even though it’s not gonna last long as Maomao‘s ruminations seem to indicate, but her worrisome exchange with Lihaku is abruptly interrupted by a jealous Jinshi and, right afterwards, by another gag that sees our apothecary totally losing her composure at the offer of receiving some prestigious Ox Bezoar as a reward for further investigating the concerning matters she was talking about earlier. Her excitement is so overwhelming and overflowing that she gets gradually closer to the camera until a close-up shot on her face takes up the entire frame.
Back to a more serious tone, the location also changes and Maomao‘s now consulting official reports about incidents that have occurred in the Court. I really enjoyed the visual presentation of her thoughts being put together while she’s gazing at the technical drawings on the paper; at first, it’s a simple shot of the scroll spread out on the table, but as we dive deeper into Maomao‘s thinking, the camera closes up more and more on the drawings, until eventually it almost physically enters the dimension of the paper, and the scenario in her mind starts to blend with the drawing themselves. A very creative and effective way of showing her immersion in her thoughts, and making us involved in it as well.
After putting together some of the pieces of the puzzle we’ve been looking at from the start of this second cour, just one more obstacle stands in Maomao‘s way: her social status as a servant in the Imperial Court. The disparity between her and the guard before the ceremonial building is patently showcased visually through some quite clever framing, not only there’s a stone pillar separating the two of them right in the middle of the frame, but her position is also lower than his, as she’s standing some steps below on the stairs.
Episode #19 – Maomao & the guard
After the guard hits her making her nose bleed and her face swallow, to make things worse (or better?) Lakan makes his appearance, and he does so in the most menacing way possible. There’s no eye contact whatsoever between him and Maomao, his voice is enough for her to recognize him without doubt. He walks up the stairs slowly covering up Maomao‘s entire screen presence, almost like she’s being engulfed in his oppressing presence.
It’s unpleasant, but it’s thanks to him that our maidservant can finally procede into the building and successfully save the person who’s performing the ceremony, that to no one’s surprise is revealed to be none other than Jinshi.
The last cuts of him taking her unconscious body to a safe place, walking the opposite direction of where Lakan is facing, with, again, a great use of negative space and powerful visual storytelling, are a great and dramatic way to close the episode.
Episode #19 – Jinshi & Lakan
I’ve been loving this show and its clever ideas an awful lot so far, aided by the fact that I’m already a great fan of its source material to begin with. It’s been really a long time since I felt so passionate about something to the point I felt like writing about it as I’m doing right now; hopefully in the next few episodes too there will be something worth writing about.
As one of the leftovers from the previous fall season, Kusuriya no Hitorigoto‘s second consecutive cour is now airing, adapting the second volume of the source Light Novel.
As a big fan of the series, both through Nekokurage‘s manga adaptation and the LN itself, I’m very pleased with how Lakan was subtly introduced in the past few episodes. The aura of mystery and uneasiness that surrounds his character has been portrayed in the best possible way in the B Part of Episode #15, last week’s episode.
Episode #15 – Jinshi & Lakan
Low camera angles, gloomy lighting and well designed and expressive framing (Maomao being figuratively “caged” in the Palace, between the lamp on the left and the pillars on the right, and Jinshi, being oppressed by Lakan‘s presence as he’s positioned at the edge of the frame, drawn at such an angle that Lakan purposefully covers Gaoshun in the background leaving just the two of them in the shot) really helped driving the point home, making this one of my favorite sequences this season so far.
Episode #15 – Maomao
Talking about visually interesting sequences, alongside with this one from Episode #15, the one at the beginning of Episode #14 definitely stands out, solemnly showcasing the entrance of the new consort in the Inner Palace, highlighting just the red color on (and around) her figure, and desaturating the other tones to accentuate her pretentious attitude. A brilliant way to achieve visually-expressive storytelling with rather simple means.
Episode #14 – Beginning sequence
Moving on to this week’s Episode #16, much like its predecessors, it covered another self-contained story. The solution to this week’s mystery revolved, above all, around “light”. This show has been really effective in meticulously depicting lighting and shadows since its very first few episodes, showing great care and attention to detail; this time as well, when such detail had actually played a role in solving the mystery, the lighting of the room was indeed a major visual element throughout the whole episode, in the form of thoroughly drawn shadows and digital effects.
Episode #16
Another key element of this week’s episode was the relationship between father and son (or daughter), a theme this story has been carefully building up to throughout its run.
So far, a modest yet surprising and creative production, crafting week by week a solid and valuable adaptation with (a rather methodical but surely effective) vision and soul. Arguably, one of the most interesting currently airing shows, and possibly one I’m going to cover more on this blog over the next few weeks.
Original interview from the 1988 MOVIC Cinemabook, transcribed from “Char’s Counterattack Complete Collection of Official Records —BEYOND THE TIME—” (2022).
This translation is pretty outdated and may contain some inconsistencies or inaccuracies! It might get a revision sometime in the future…
~ It became a story where I didn’t like Beltorchika to appear in any way, so I chose to leave her out. ~
— “Mobile Suit Gundam” is, as of now, composed of three series; where is this new movie “Mobile Suit Gundam: Char’s Counterattack” placed in relation to the aforementioned shows?
Of course it’s not unrelated to them. It’s the successor to “Mobile Suit Gundam” and “Mobile Suit Z Gundam”. However, it does not inherit “everything” from them, “Char’s Counterattack” is a story that was constructed step by step. “Not everything” means things like why Beltorchika Irma, a character introduced in Mobile Suit Z Gundam, is not present in Char’s Counterattack. Basically, I can’t say it inherits everything in terms of how the characters were arranged.
Why doesn’t it? Originally, it should have inherited everything, but when I initially wrote the script that way, it was rejected. If I had more freedom with that, and Beltorchika would have appeared as Amuro’s significant other, the two of them would have ended being married. Basically, if they were married, perhaps they also had lived together for a long while, and at that point the sponsoring company was doubtful that a protagonist like that could have worked in a robot movie. I thought it was a very reasonable doubt. But while I was actually working on the plan and writing the script for “Char’s Counterattack”, I couldn’t think of that much myself. Basically, because I imaged “Char’s Counterattack” to be the sequel to “Z Gundam” which was the sequel to the first “Gundam”, I was sure Beltorichika had to be there. However, when I realized it wasn’t appropriate to make her appear in this movie due to the aforementioned developments, I removed her from the story, and I also made sure not to mention any information about her character. If I still included things like that in the movie, it would have quickly exceeded the 2 hours limit.
However, that wasn’t the only reason I stopped her from appearing in this movie.
When I finished writing the first script, I realized there was another major problem: it ended up becoming a story where the human power was so strong that Mobile Suits weren’t needed anymore. This too would have been a critical issue for the affiliated company that kindly sponsored “Char’s Counterattack”. And for me as well, it was something I didn’t like. After all, it is “Gundam” because it has mobile suits, like the Gundam itself.
Eventually, it became a story where I didn’t like Beltorchika to appear in any way, so I chose to leave her out.
— It sounds like the result of really hard work.
Nevertheless, on the other hand, it’s also natural to wonder why I had to leave her out of the story for a reason like that. However, to me, a movie should fundamentally be a one-episode self-contained story. You might ask what the previous “Mobile Suit Gundam (I, II, III)” movies are then, but the difference is that they’re the remaking of the tv series. So, if you ask me if it’s ok for movies like that to exist, since I too make them, I’d say it is (laughs). But it’d be a problem if every movie was like that. Also, for me personally, I wouldn’t like people to think that even if, for example, I divided “Char’s Counterattack” in “Part 1” and “Part 2”, it would have still been profitable, and since I was making a movie to be the conclusion to the first “Gundam”, I wanted it to be a one-shot episode no matter what.
In other words, if I had those claims on my part, and the affiliated company that invested in the project acknowledged them, I instead think that the story I proposed, in which Amuro may be married and the Mobile Suits are not needed, must have been suppressed. This isn’t a give-and-take situation, rather a requirement that must be met in order for the movie to succeed.
I fully accepted all these things as I was realizing them myself, and I’m glad it turned out to be a lighter movie this way. If Beltorchika made her appearance in order to have more natural-feeling dialogues throughout the movie, it would have been a little different from the kind of movies you simply watch and enjoy, it would have been something more true-to-life. However, there are two editors currently publishing the novel versions of “Char’s Counterattack”, and I know that there already are a lot of opinions that the version of the story in the novels, where Beltorchika is present, is better. I think it’s a good thing. Now you might ask why I didn’t forcedly do it then, and that is because if I did, “Gundam” as a product wouldn’t have been able to go on. It’s not just for practical reasons like investors not putting their money in it; if I possessed the power to do that myself, and actually made that happen, I would have become unable to write anything about Mobile Suits at all after that. If you’re wondering whether a story that denies the role of Mobile Suits would still be good or not, after all, the answer is no. Basically, what needed to be included in the novel adaptation was the first version of the script I wrote.
After all, a movie should not be made solely based on the ideas from a single staff member. For a movie, first you have to think of the audience, then come the investors and the director. Then many more people need to be involved, like animators, art directors, voice actors, and the people who took the recordings. If it was to be based on the preferences of only one person, then creating a movie wouldn’t need to involve that many people. But even so, ultimately, a movie is still influenced by its director’s intentions, so it can be said that it does belong to the director. The work of balancing these aspects is what makes a move so interesting.
— You’re saying it’s the result of the intentions of many people, but it must also be the result of one single person’s will.
There’s often debate about whether it’s right for directors to convey their egos into their movies or not, but the answer is no. If you look at successful movies, they’re made with the collective effort not to let individual egos shine. Those movies feel like actual movies because they’re made oppressing the director’s ego and accepting many different opinions. It’s when movies are made that way that I think they’re successful, and I believe “Char’s Counterattack” is like that too. At least, I believe it didn’t turn out to be that kind of heavy and painful works that just conveyed their director’s ideas.
That’s why, in my case, I can only say that I couldn’t think of “Char’s Counterattack” as something to watch after the previous tv series, but I could only create it as a one-shot story that just inherited something from them. It’s not something to compare to the tv series, and at the same time it does not have incongruences with everything that has happened until now. It’s the only result of all these things.
— New characters, like Quess Paraya, made their appearance in “Char’s Counterattack”, can you say something about them?
After deciding Beltorchika wouldn’t have appeared in the movie, I thought it was necessary to add something to spice up the film, and after all, a female character to shoulder the protagonist was what was needed, that’s why I made Chan Agi to be Amuro’s partner.
Also, since “Char’s Counterattack” is the story between Amuro and Char, the characters are arranged in a very particular way so that they’re not simply divided into enemies and allies. In order to achieve that, when I was thinking of Char and the antagonist-side, I thought a character to form a connection between the two sides was necessary. When I was thinking of that character’s disposition, I couldn’t think of anything different than someone like Quess Paraya. So I made her a supporting character, so that even though the parties are divided into allies and enemies, there’s a connection between them. For that reason, if Beltorchika was to appear in the movie, she would have ended up covering the roles of both Chan and Quess by herself. Under such circumstances, a new character had to be introduced. And what I came up with after that was “Char’s Counterattack”.
— Besides Beltorchika, what about the other characters from the previous “Gundam” and “Z Gundam” that didn’t make an appearance?
While making “Char’s Counterattack” I didn’t think at all of the other characters. As for why I didn’t consider other parts, this is also my personal opinion but, movies should have a good pacing, and if I had to expand on other parts as well, the pacing would have gotten worse, and on top of that, considering I knew for certain that drawings and animation wouldn’t have been completed in time, I removed most if not all of the parts that felt superfluous.
Well, the running time of the movie was exactly as I planned. The cuts that got removed were about 300, all originally prepared because they were necessary to explain things like the human relationships between characters in the movie, there was no element [that got removed] other than that.
~ I believe that if they work hard and get their job done, and gain experience from that, truly amazing animation can be produced. ~
— What do you think about the production staff?
The fact that there are seven animation directors who worked together is clear to anyone who watches the movie. As for why there were seven of them, it’s simply because no animation director alone was able to do as good as Yoshikazu Yasuhiko did with “Gundam”. At the same time, creating something like “Gundam” after Yasuhiko, would require a tremendous amount of strength. The reason for this is that “Gundam” has a certain volume to it. Expecting people who are barely 25 years old to be able to handle that kind of work would be a pretty cruel thing. As the production process continued, what made an impression on me was that especially in the first four months, to put it bluntly, not a single cut was completed. Supposing things were going smoothly, over these four months I believe even the after recording and dubbing processes would have been completed to a good extent.
As for why it ended up like this, there are many other reasons. Anyways, regarding only the “Gundam” part, it had a “certain volume” to it, meaning it was pretty demanding work, and because of that the staff must have been nervous and even if they tried their best, they couldn’t make it. That one cut took a lot of time and even when it was finished, the end result wasn’t really great.
In short, the desire to work harder made them waste more time. It’s the same thing I said earlier, when I wrote a version of the story in which Beltorchika appeared as the first script. I wanted to do my best and I had to, so I ended up writing a story in which Amuro had become like an old man, all to be told in the end that that kind of thing couldn’t have worked in the movie; in this exact same way, everyone was burdened with that cut and couldn’t move on at all. In other words, this proves that wanting to do your best only by yourself will never bring good results.
If that wasn’t the case then, someone experienced like me should have seen this situation coming and prevented it, and I deeply regret I didn’t. As a result, I felt that young people were put under undue pressure. I am sorry for what happened. When I saw all those young staff members of today being stuck trying to do their best, I thought they must have been all very nervous. However, feeling this nervousness when doing business is extremely troublesome. It becomes a negative factor. All this nervousness creates is a loss in terms of time and money, and these inconveniences end up affecting even other aspects like the post-recording and dubbing, creating even more inconveniences to other people. My message to all staff members is to try to maintain a good balance in this regard.
And also, when it comes to work, it is also a problem to take things too seriously. In other words, I think that all the staff needs to be trained in order to become able to skillfully handle this middle-of-the-road aspects, and if they got trained like that, most of the staff members that worked on “Char’s Counterattack” would become able to effectively utilize their skills in the field to complete their works. There are some exceptional individuals, but most people already possess really good skills and understanding of the fundamentals of animation. I believe that if they work on two or three more projects like this one, and gain more experience, truly amazing animation can be produced here in Tokyo. This isn’t just cheap flattery. That’s why I want them to take real care of the power they have right now.
— Moving on to another topic, did you as the Director draw designs or rough sketches for this project?
No, I don’t do that kind of work anymore. That’s because it’s no longer at a level an amateur can handle, so I don’t get my hands on it anymore. However, as I said earlier when we were talking about the staff, the main trouble was that, although the skill level of each individual has improved greatly, unfortunately, they neglected the more fundamental issues and focused only on the less relevant and smaller details. That’s no good. Because of that, they had hard times especially with the mechanical design. To the point they felt genuinely angry.
I recognize that the animation, or rather, the drawings that form the animation are really good. But the essential thing is that this is animation, you don’t have to draw with an illustration-level finish. That’s not animation, that’s illustration. You can’t make drawings like that move. That’s why they’d come to a point where almost no one could think of the action lines for the animation. Moreover, even if you know how to depict the movements that have been popular in tv animation for the past two to three years now, that’s not animation. There are a lot of people who, in order to learn just that technique, have forgotten how to do ordinary animation.
Even when it comes to mechanical design, I know they’re supposed to draw mobile suits and mechs with a new and fresh feel to them, but when I look at the designs, I feel I’ve already seen them somewhere before. The details on the exterior are drawn in a cool and meticulous way, but in the end if you remove everything on the surface, it’s just the copy of another character. That’s why I want people to understand not to let details fool them, and that a design detailed like an illustration can’t be made to move around in animation.
The end result is that the animation of the last few years, especially the one that comes out of the world of video editing software, all looks the same. It’s not an independent work.
However, I’m not doing any design work myself. It’s all done by the individual designers. Anyways, because we had to spend so much time just to get to that point, the finish ended up being a bit sluggish, and the fact that it wasn’t really an independent work was painful.
— Going back once more to the work itself, it looks like “Char’s Counterattack” brings a breakpoint in “Gundam”, did you feel something in this regard?
Unfortunately, after finishing editing this film, I realized I didn’t really hit a breakpoint with it, so I don’t have that kind of feelings about it. To be honest, now that the prologue is finally over, I’m just looking forward for “Gundam” to start all over again.
I’ve come to the realization that I myself have been living inside of “Gundam”.
— What do you want people to see in “Char’s Counterattack”?
The reason I made this movie is that I wanted the audience to see it and I had something to tell them through it, so all I can say is please watch it. And whether they like it or not, it’s not just the audience’s business. As the creator, I can only ask “I made the work this way, what do you think?”. If it was just to say “I made the work this way, so please understand it”, I wouldn’t have gone out of my way to make a whole movie, I would have just written a publication or a novel, and a pamphlet with dozens of pages explaining what I meant to write in the movie. But if I did that, there would have been no reason to make the movie at all, and if there’s no movie, there’s no pamphlet either, so that would have been a contradiction (laughs).
Also, those who have already watched “Char’s Counterattack” will understand, but I really don’t know whether the things I did in the movie, like withdrawing Beltorchika or the last scene with Amuro and Char, are good or bad. I’m not saying I just summed it up and made it that way. The screening time was limited to at most two hours. If I wanted to add more details, it would have exceeded that time limit. It might have been possible to create a great work even exceeding the time limit, but I didn’t have the self confidence to do so.
Anyways, it’s not related to the main body of the work, but there’s something on a technical extent I would like people to notice. My approach in direction for this movie was to make it look like a regular animation movie. I can say with total certainty that there’s no basis to say this is a just regular movie, however, I thought this kind of baseline would have worked, so I made “Char’s Counterattack” this way. This type of technical attention, like how the drawings are connected to each other, should be reflected on the screen.
If possible, it would really be educational if, instead of thinking “why does it look like this?”, you thought “what did the director do to make it look like this?” and tried to figure out the answer. However, this is something highly technical that cannot be really put into words. Even if I explained it, it would be really hard to understand, instead I would really like you to learn it by looking with your own eyes. If, while watching “Char’s Counterattack”, you felt something was strange, like how it looked or didn’t look like a regular movie, that’s what I’m talking about. Also, if you wondered how the story of the movie seemed to fly by so quickly, if you pay special attention to it, you will understand how to connect the moving drawings together [to make it feel so quick T.N.]. When you’ll have the chance to make a movie in the future, that will become some very remarkable knowledge to have.
~ If I were offered to make a live action robot movie, I would want to create a work that doesn’t let the animation say anything. ~
— Except for your own works, what kind of other works do you like?
Speaking of movies, I don’t like them to a point I can actually say “I like it”. However, if it’s just a matter of preference, I would say I like the black-and-white version of “King Kong” that was produced in the United States in 1933.
— Did “King Kong” have any influence on you as a movie creator?
I wouldn’t say so. And that’s because it’s a movie with a low degree of perfection. However, I like it because it conveys something that makes me feel like saying “I love King Kong”. I guess that’s what movies are all about, that feeling of having fun. Also it’s because I think the stupidity of the people who created such movies, still in black and white, at the time when talkies (vocal films) began to spread before World War II, might be the true spirit that animates filmmakers at their core.
Accordingly, that’s why I really hate the color version of “King Kong” that was shot on 70mm film. As for why that is, [in the b&w 1933’s version] their true intentions were unusually apparent and the unhinged nature was on full display, if it were me I would think that was great, and their attitude towards their work was totally positive. In other words, now that color film has become commonplace and anyone with the right financial backing can set up such a large location, arrange a 70m camera and do it, I can’t stand hearing the staff from that movie saying that was the real “King Kong”.
— Is there a recent movie that caught your attention?
I told you, I don’t really like movies, so I think that last year (1987) I haven’t watched a single one…
Oh, I forgot to mention, when it comes to movies, horrors are absolutely a no go for me.
— Is that because they don’t personally suit your personality?
Rather than not suiting my likings, I just can’t bear them. So when I accidentally went to watch “Alien”, I was so scared that I closed my eyes for about an hour (laughs). I’m just that kind of person (laughs).
— There’s quite the difference in genre between “Alien” and “Alien 2”, the latter being more of an action movie. What’s your opinion on “Alien 2”?
“Alien 2” is kind of a stupid movie (laughs). At least I’m glad it wasn’t that scary. The first one was really scary… I want to whack whoever makes it air on tv. Don’t you think? But when it’s broadcast on TV, it’s not that scary. Isn’t that callous approach the same as the callousness of the color version of “King Kong”?
Anyways, I really don’t watch many movies. Of course I do have interest in the ones I work on and I’m glad if they do well, but generally I hate even my own films. That’s because if I end up liking my own movie and get absorbed into it, I always have the fear somewhere in my heart that I won’t be able to come up with the next one.
And yet, when I watched “Mobile Suit Gundam III: Encounters in Space” about four or five years after its release, I was moved (laughs). “There really are people who can make such great movies out here, that’s remarkable”, I thought (laughs). Basically it’s because I hate them for a while, that somehow I don’t see them as my own work. In that sense, I am a relentlessly forgetful person (laughs).
— Lately, “RoboCop” has been a hot topic when it comes to movies, it’s a shame that robots, a speciality of animation, has been stolen by live action movies, don’t you think?
I knew this was going to happen three or four years ago already. I’m angry at myself for not making “Live Gundam”. Perhaps if the talks for “Live Gundam” had been concluded well, it could have been released around fall of last year.
— Do you think animated robots can break out of the current difficult situation?
No, they cannot. There’s no clear reason why. But it’s definitely the case. For example, if I were offered to do a live action robot movie, I would want to do it. If that happens, I would like to create a work that doesn’t let the animation say anything. I think I’ll have that kind of opportunity sometime before I die (laughs).
There’s a part of me that foolishly believes that. It’s also true that I would like to believe that even right now, from a practical standpoint. I would like to think about what the mechs would be like in such situations. Maybe not right now that “Char’s Counterattack” just got released, but when summer comes I would love to forget about my current job and think more about that. Maybe this joke will turn out to be true in the future (laughs). Even though I don’t know how far in the future it may be, since I believe it, I’m already starting to make plans.
In that sense, if the staff who helped with “Char’s Counterattack” works on several other animation products over the course of, say, three years from now, and doing so also learns the skills to create real animation, and becomes able to make a real movie, then, when that time comes, it’d may be possible to create an [animated] movie that can silence the live action robots produced by Hollywood.
Actually, I do believe that’s possible. In fact, I would love to make an animated movie that even makes people want to see a live action adaptation of such a movie instead. And this means that if you don’t believe in this like the joke I talked about earlier, you have to seriously plan a route to this end. If you just have a vague idea to do something, you’ll get nowhere. I believe it can be done.
— After all, if you don’t start thinking about it, it’s not fun.
It’s not that it’s not fun, it’s that you won’t be able to take it seriously unless you think about it. It is because we believe in this that we are able to create things.
~ If Char was really a lolicon, he would have teased Mineva and it would have been a rotten story. So, let’s assume he forgot about her. ~
— Let me change the topic back to “Char’s Counterattack”; I would like to hear something about the voice actors.
Well, I had no freedom in that regard anyway. I mean, some of the voice actors were already an obligatory choice, right? A lot of them, actually. As a filmmaker, when creating a new movie I want to refresh things a bit. And first of all, there were a lot of characters that appealed to me in that sense. On top of that, to select the voices for the new characters, I had to listen to about 80 audition tapes, but I had the impression that the new aspiring voice actors sound all the same, they all act the same way. But for this movie, we had no choice but to use this kind of cast. It really bothers me from the bottom of my heart.
However, this does not mean there is something wrong with the people who performed in “Char’s Counterattack”. On the contrary, there isn’t anything wrong at all with the people who played the roles. What I’m trying to say is that new options have become so narrow. Also, I would have loved to work with a young, fit-looking girl (laughs). However, I couldn’t abuse my authority to that extent (laughs). In other words, the pool of voice actors has become narrower. It’s the same thing I talked about before regarding the animators. Well, it made me realize that the nature of various things has become narrower nowadays, and also that we need to create a world where we can work with people with different tastes and characteristics. Compared to about 4 years ago, it seems like there are fewer options, and it really came in as a surprise to me.
After all, the cause of this are the new tendencies like to have a predetermined image of what animation is, or for production companies to bring in cute girls, and I would want this to stop immediately. I would like to say that animation is not a place as narrow as this. Anyways, this is not a problem for the individual voice actors to solve, but for the animation industry as a whole.
— It’s similar to the idol singers being all the same type of cute girls, isn’t it?
Yes, it’s exactly the same. Whether they’re good singers or not is a problem that comes after. This kind of thing depend on the horizons and personal fondness of the people at the top who select these girls.
— For this movie, the dubbing process lasted for three whole days, right?
If you ask me, three days were not enough. But there are many practical issues regarding budgets and guarantees in the Japanese television and animation industry, so we could not ask for any more than that. That’s the current state of things, and I hate it. However, I also think I understand that everyone else too isn’t working under ideal conditions.
— Not to ask about the parts of the story that weren’t depicted this time, but I’m really curious as to why Mineva Lao Zabi wasn’t there alongside Char. She would be already 14 years old, so she should be old enough to express her thoughts on her own now, right?
Well, about that. I didn’t make her appear because of my personal preference, so I didn’t mention anything about her. If I did that, it would have ended up becoming the story of Char and Mineva. And that’s an entirely different story. If Amuro were to interfere in such a story, it would have only become more complicated. It would have ended up in a similar fashion as that feeling of intricacy and confusion when Haman Karn appeared in “Z Gundam”. So I instinctively avoided writing a story like that.
So then, in response to the question of what kind of relationship is there between Char and Mineva in “Char’s Counterattack”, ultimately, Char solved his issues with the Zabi family, so even making him kill Mineva wouldn’t have made sense as any kind of vengeance story at all, so think that he just let her be or forgot about her. Otherwise, the story would have easily focused on how tragic of a character Mineva is, and I didn’t want to dive into that kind of thing.
It’s briefly mentioned in the movie, but if Char really is a lolicon, for better or worse, he would teased Mineva. She would have been harassed and tormented, or even molested. But either way, it would have been a torture for her. I personally don’t like stories like that. This kind of desire to portray the inherently sadistic side of humans doesn’t really suit robot stories. So, let’s assume that Char forgot about her. Otherwise, it would be a rotten story…
Obviously, I completely understand your interest to know about the story of the two of them. Maybe it’s because “Char’s Counterattack” has finally left my mind, but the truth is that I could create another story about both Mineva and Char.
— Mineva too is a character with a considerable weight in the story, isn’t she?
For this very reason, isn’t it okay for at least one little girl to be forgotten for once? In Beltorchika’s case, I had plans for her but then withdrew them, so it’s fine. I guess it’s because this aspect of choosing which character to pick up is an inherent trait of “Gundam” as a work. That’s why I think I shouldn’t always use every single character. I feel like if I did everything too methodically, it would become an unhealthy practice. I think I’ll definitely include Mineva in the extra edition and deal with her… no, I won’t (laughs).
Anyways, if I were to deal with her, I would probably do it with an adult Mineva. Otherwise it’ll end up naughty and I’ll feel bad, so I’d wait for her to come of age and not be a child anymore. Once you become an adult, it’s okay for you to decide things by yourself. Now that I have this idea in my mind, I’ll use it for the next “Gundam”… (laughs).
~ Even if Amuro and Char died in “Char’s Counterattack”, their existence will never disappear. ~
— Well then, lastly, I wanted to ask about Amuro and Char in “Char’s Counterattack”, which of these two characters do you personally prefer?
Well… as their creator, I shouldn’t answer that; I know them both very well. Anyways, Amuro is an ordinary character, while Char is more like a recipient for the desires and ambitions of many people. However, everyone knows that to become something like Char is highly dangerous, so I have the feeling that if I have to choose which one I prefer, Amuro would be my choice. Also, Char as a person is what I tried to become myself, and since I couldn’t, sometimes I feel like I can’t stand that bastard. This is just a comparison between the two, but I really cannot say which one of them I like the most in my heart.
However, as a deep emotion I feel towards both of them, I do feel both Amuro and Char did a great job until now. I also think there is some problem with the meaning of “Counterattack” in this movie.
— I believe that at their core, their personality is the same for both of them. Did you make them with this in mind?
If that’s what you feel, there’s nothing I, as the creator, can say. But it’s not like I made them with that intent in mind.
— There have been moments when I figured it wouldn’t be strange if the two of them were swapped.
I see, I too totally understand that. That’s why Amuro and Char should be able to become good friends. Yet, people with the same “character” can never become one. Especially in a community, whether it’s a nation or a company, only one person can stand at the top. The remaining people have no choice but to become their assistants or subordinates. But Amuro and Char are both men who stand at the top. And that’s exactly why they can’t exist simultaneously. To make that possible, it would take the world to change.
Ultimately, “Gundam” is a war story because mobile suits are there; if I were to depict only Amuro and Char in a different way than the others, it would no longer need to be a war drama. That’s right, “Gundam” has created a world that led to characters like those two to appear, in other words, it gave life to characters whose personality even I cannot change. In that sense too, it was impossible for me to deliberately mess with them.
— It often happens that characters become independent from their creator.
Yeah, it’s like that. It’s not as easy as it sounds on the surface, but it’s definitely as you said. They exist as humans with actual personalities. That’s why even if Amuro and Char died in “Char’s Counterattack”, their existence will never disappear.
Original interview from Shinbogatari (2012), check it out on the SoreMachi fansite too!
This translation is pretty outdated and may contain some inconsistencies or inaccuracies! It might get a revision sometime in the future…
~ While I was watching the anime, I was reminded of the feelings I had during the original serialization ~
— First of all, congratulations for concluding the anime series “Soredemo Machi ha Mawatte Iru”.
Ishiguro: I watched the anime every week, not by recording of the episodes, but in real time right when they were airing. Though, the airing time for SoreMachi got changed and it broadcasted too late in my opinion (laughs). Due to sports programs, it slowly got delayed further and further and at times it even aired after 3 AM… It was tough…
Everyone laughs.
— I’ve already asked this before, but what’s the most dear thing to Director Shinbo about SoreMachi?
Shinbo: Getting involved with it. This time I did a lot of unusual things, I wanted to create a film filled with the ideas and feelings of the whole staff, one that would have made everyone delighted once it was completed. That’s the basic idea behind SoreMachi.
Ishiguro: Watching the SoreMachi anime, I was reminded of what I thought I wanted to do in the beginning. In fact, as the series goes on, different elements like school-life and SF are presented, and the story explores various directions. But, the anime mainly focuses on the initial chapters, so while I was watching it, I was reminded of my feelings at the beginning of the manga. At first, in SoreMachi I drew a lot of the Made Cafè in the Shopping District. At the very beginning, before the serialization even started, I planned of having Hotori not wearing maid clothes that often, I wanted her to wear them only in the most critical moments. Like the Battle Protector in Future Police Urashiman. The Battle Protector gets used only once in the 10th episode, right? (laughs). That’s about what I felt I wanted to do. But well, due to the editor’s demands, that ended up not being the case.
Shinbo: I heard that Naoyuki Tatsuwa-san, the series director, worked so excessively hard that he almost got some bald spots in his hair.
Ishiguro: Tatsuwa-san also put on some weight, didn’t he. He was so thin when I first met him. As far as I know, his whole body got bigger.
Shinbo: Also, Yasutoshi Iwasaki-kun, the chief animation director, did his absolute best. He actively participated and made great efforts with the parts we struggled to picture. For example, he helped out with dubbing synchronization and other small and fine details. He was like an all-rounder. I’m really grateful.
Ishiguro: The animators’ drawings thrilled me a lot. They animated characters walking around while wearing a purse, or singing while playing the bass, I think it’s impressive how they were able to pull that off. I too, when I was still in school studying under Toshiyuki Sato-san, have drawn some animation, but I couldn’t really make such sakuga.
Shinbo: Ishiguro-san, are you still interested in working as an animator?
Ishiguro: It’s not like I’m not interested, but I’m a mangaka, so… I think it’s better to leave anime to the people who are competent in the field. Hotori and the others are more cute in the anime (laughs). I think my contribution would be superfluous.
Shinbo: Which parts do you think were cuter?
Ishiguro: I thought “oh, I lost” in Part A of the first episode, when Tattsun turns this way while puffing out her nose. It was so cute I hurried up and took a screen capture and saved it.
Shinbo: Up until now, I used to make products that relied on the right tempo and ratio between cuts to create animation, without actually using movement. But with SoreMachi, I tried a different approach focusing on the character acting, with more dynamic facial expressions and gestures. Also, I thought it would be a good thing to convey a somewhat detective-like ambience so, in order to convey a slightly mysterious feeling, I used reflections on door knobs or glass and lower camera angles. For the DVD/BD version, I wanted to redo the photography all over again, and applied new filters to the compositing. Back in the days, there was an actual gap between the cels and the lens of photography machine, so the ambience was naturally put into it. But now, unless you put on filter during compositing, you can’t quite convey the right atmosphere.
Ishiguro: Since when anime became digital, drawings are made with clicks and some aspects of it have lost their appeal, haven’t they. Personally I like anime from the hand-made cel times better.
Shinbo: Now it’s more difficult to understand how good the film sensitivity is. Now, watching TV programs, I too am unfortunately getting used to see digital drawings, to the extent some times I even do want to watch those made-with-clicks drawings. It’s really sad.
~ It might have become the most mysterious story of SoreMachi ~
— Well, then. Today I would like to hear about the point of contact between the anime SoreMachi and the original manga. One example is the 9th episode in the anime and manga chapter 71.
Shinbo: The “Bechiko Yaki” from episode 9, right?
Ishiguro: That was an idea that Director Shinbo told me about a long ago. Eventually, other people were about to use that same idea, so I wanted to do it first.
Shinbo: It was about having the manga version by Ishiguro-san being published in the Young King OURs magazine, and the anime version broadcasting immediately the next day. I’ve always sat on the idea of releasing the anime and manga in the same season while working on an anime adaptation. But I didn’t think there would have been a busy mangaka down to help me realize it. It was a really difficult thing, but Ishiguro-san said he definitely wanted to do it. I believe people who were up to date with the Young King OURs manga magazine and then watched the anime version right after were surprised. Because we wanted to see those astonished expressions (laughs) we both worked hard.
Ishiguro: I came up with the “Bechiko Yaki” story after this whole thing was planned. I wrote it already knowing it was going to be adapted into anime, so it took me quite some time to finish writing the draft. I dragged it for so long it was almost too late when I presented the work to the anime staff.
Shinbo: Based off the draft Ishiguro-san gave us, Takayama Katsukiho-san (the series’ scriptwriter) wrote the actual script and from that we completed the storyboards. It was an original episode, so later while Ishiguro-san was checking the manuscript, adjusting things to make it more coherent and consistent.
Ishiguro: Half a year before I finished with the draft, then I wrote the manga manuscript in October 2010. I wanted to make a self-contained story completely detached from everything else. And I also wanted the characters not to have a proper introduction. That’s why I chose Kameidou, who has very few appearances, as the main character.
Shinbo: This episode was an original, so new characters models were necessary. The character design drafts Ishiguro-san gave us were already colored in anime-style.
Ishiguro: I thought it would have had a certain appeal to the anime industry (laughs), I put lots of effort drawing them.
Shinbo: That story might have become the most mysterious story of SoreMachi.
Ishiguro: You’re right. It might also have surpassed “Hole” (episode 10 Part A) (laughs).
Shinbo: The anime staff was bewildered, wondering what Bechiko Yaki were (laughs).
Ishiguro: They’re mythical sweets (laughs).
Shinbo: During production, we were lost about what color they actually were, physically speaking.
Ishiguro: After completing the draft, I worked at the manga as usual but… I thought of them with the assumption that they would be colored, so Bechiko Yaki’s real color was truly a big trouble (laughs). After all, manga is in the black and white world.
Shinbo: I would definitely like to compare the manga and anime versions.
Ishiguro: Personally I’m curious about the anime staff’s reactions. Takayama-san’s reaction was merely just “It’s white, it’s white”, I want to know about other people’s reactions as well.
— Anyways, the subtitles for the SoreMachi anime are a bit odd, aren’t they? Like “The Most Popular Sexual Harassment Trial” or “The Cat Boy”.
Ishiguro: Those are Director Shinbo’s conspiracies (laughs). For the anime subtitles, there was a rule that the original subtitle for Part A and the original subtitle for Part B must be combined into one.
Shinbo: When I was thinking about what to do with the subtitles, accidentally I realized how good combining the two subtitles “Hole” and “Grandpa Tsukkomi” into “Grandpa Tsukkomi Hole” sounded.
Ishiguro: And so, to follow the scheme of this “Grandpa Tsukkomi Hole” subtitle, Director Shinbo stick with the rule of combining the two of them into one (laughs). For example, episode 7 “Lovers Night Escape” comes from “Romantic Runaway” and “Night Walker”, and episode 8 “Automatic Orchestra” is the combination of “Automatic World” and “Labyrinth Orchestra”. The audience too began to realize the patter, but for episode 9 they couldn’t put it together (laughs).
Shinbo: Episode 9 “Duel! Adults Buying Plan” was the latest chapter in the manga that wasn’t yet included in the tankobon (laughs).
Ishiguro: Episode 11 “Kon’s Summer Crying” come from “Summer of Josephine” and “Kon-Senpai’s Silent Rage” but at first the original subtitle idea was “Josephine’s Summer Crying”. That one was pretty fun.
Shinbo: The last episode’s subtitle “SoreMachi” was nicely put together as well! Ideas like this always come while eating dinner together after reading a book.
~ I believe Omigawa-san’s voice was a stroke of luck ~
— Speaking of dinners, Ishiguro-san and Director Shinbo, I heard you meet often and had dinner together.
Shinbo: We do meet a lot. We used to met with the excuse of gathering material, and after that we went out for dinner.
Ishiguro: Even when Director Shinbo was collecting materials on his own, I rushed over (laughs). When we meet, we discuss our impressions upon watching the SoreMachi anime and chat a lot. At times I want to send him emails, but then I think Director Shinbo is a very busy man and end up not sending it.
Shinbo: It’s fine at anytime. Please, send me emails.
Ishiguro: Well then, I’ll send very brief, concise and simple mails.
Shinbo: No no, long texts are fine too (laughs). Recently though, when me and Ishiguro-san go out to eat together, the rest of the staff won’t come with us. However, it’s not like just anyone is fine, after all it’s better to be with someone who can praise you (laughs). If you don’t get to be praised, then it’s fine even if no one comes at all (laughs).
Everyone: Uh?? (laughs)
Shinbo: When I was young, when someone praised me I used to think it might have been a lie, but lately I grown to accept compliments more honestly (laughs).
Ishiguro: I too am concerned about the reception of my work. At first, I looked up for opinions on the internet and read them. But my master Shinji Ohara-san says that if you worry about your recognition too much, the gap between what your fans want you to draw and what you want to draw gets bigger, and you end up not being able to draw manga anymore. So I haven’t looked for opinions on the web for 5 years now. But since the anime adaptation., I’m reading a lot of impressions and comments about it online (laughs).
Shinbo: Why is that?
Ishiguro: Well, when it comes to anime, a lot more people are involved and your personal responsibility is lower; I think that’s the reason. Probably, because of that I feel more at ease (laughs).
Shinbo: I read opinions on the internet from time to time, but not so many about SoreMachi. I stealthily look for them too some times, but it’s not really a good thing for your mental health.
Ishiguro: SoreMachi’s reception is pretty good. I believe its reputation got better with time. From the second half of the show, the appreciation for the voice actors got incredibly high.
Shinbo: I personally agree with the characters and characters being popular.
Ishiguro: Speaking of voice actors, I recently listened to the character song album from “Natsu no Arashi!” the Director gave me. A song I thought was super cute was sung by Chiaki Omigawa-san (Hatori’s VA). Then I listened to another song and I found that one super cute as well, and it too was by Chiaki Omigawa-san… Perhaps I really like Chiaki Omigawa-san’s voice (laughs).
— In Ishiguro-san’s mind, Hatori’s voice was a strong one, right?
Ishiguro: That’s right. Years ago, when I was watching Variety Bangumi at midnight, I noticed the narrator had the perfect voice for Hotori. So, I hurriedly made a recording and said to the editor in charge at the time that was about my idea for Hatori’s voice. Then, when I was attending the voice actors auditions for this anime adaptation, there was a person whose voce was identical to the one I heard. That person was Chiaki Omigawa-san. I believe it was a stroke of luck.
Shinbo: I think Chiaki Omigawa-san fits Hotori perfectly. Speaking of V.A. from the “Natsu no Arashi!”’s character song album, Ryoko Shiraishi-san was a good fit too.
— In SoreMachi, Ryoko Shiraishi-san has voiced Harue Haribara, right?
Ishiguro: My wife got mad at me because of that, she said “What role are you making Ryoko Shiraishi-san play?!”.
Shinbo: Harue Haribara has a great personality, you know.
Ishoguro: At the first recording session, Shiraishi-san played Harue’s role being aware of her bucktooth (laughs). Like, she talked al the time exposing her teeth.
Shinbo: She didn’t need to be that worried about the teeth (laughs).
Ishiguro: To you, Harue Haribara is just a normal high-school girl, so you said there was no need to act her role in a different way, didn’t you. I went to attend every recording session I could, Tattsun’s voice actress Aoi Yuki-san’s butt was really impressive.
Shinbo: Her butt?
Ishiguro: At the recording session, we were in the booth with the sound mixing console, separate from the recording room. From there, you could see the voice actresses only from behind, or am I wrong? Yuki-san’s stature is pretty small, so when she stood tall facing the mike, she looked like she sticked her butt out in front of us, that’s why.
Shinbo: Voice actors for the characters in the shopping district were good too. The one for the guy at the laundry had the same eyes as the character (laughs).
Ishiguro: At the recording sessions, Tatsuka-san told me that the guy from the laundry was there in the studio, and he really was, the voice actor I mean (laughs).
Shinbo: There aren’t many products that can use such harsh male voices, so it sounds really fresh. Nowadays, voice actors like that are almost only used to dub foreign movies.
Ishiguro: Yeah, you’re probably right.
Shinbo: Uki’s voice actor, Takahiro Sakurai-san was great too. So much so that from now on I would like to think that old ladies should always be played by men. Yukio Aoshima-san played a role in “Ijiwaru Baasan” didn’t he? Ken Shimura-san played a lot of old lady roles too. Instead of having actual women playing that kind of role, I think male actors can play it in a more “vigorous” way. However, Sakurai-san’s got so hooked and absorbed acting towards Uki’s husband Zenji it became a strange situation. I totally couldn’t tell Sakurai-san was acting in that moment.
Ishiguro: It wasn’t Sakurai-san, I got the impression it was Uki herself.
Shinbo: Sakura-san’s physique looks like Uki’s. That may be the reason why.
Ishiguro: His hair was gray as well, and his boy is thin too. Their body shape is really identical.
Shinbo: After all, the voice comes out of one’s body and skull, right? That’s why if the physique is similar, the voice is as well. It was a satisfying discovery.
Ishiguro: For people like me who always look at voice actors from behind and aren’t really knowledgeable about them, it was pretty confusing. When I attended the auditions, a lot of famous voice actors were present there, but ultimately I didn’t understand at all who played which role. Why at the recording studio you can watch only from behind?
Shinbo: There are so studios where you can look from the side too. But I don’t think there’s one where you can see the voice actors from the front. After all, if the actors and the studio staff look at each other in the eyes, it may be an awkward situation. Also, voice actors must look at the images while they’re performing. At times, narrators happen to look forward.
Ishiguro: When I was in the recording studio, I was there basically just to watch. When DoA Toshiki Kameyama spotted someone misreading a kanji he boastfully reported the mistake (laughs).
Shinbo: Members of the cast said that Ishiguro-san in person is different from the photo in the tankobons.
Ishiguro: That’s Jeremy Brett, not me! My face doesn’t look like that!
~ There still are episodes I want to adapt into anime ~
Shinbo: After the recordings, we used to go to launch or inner meetings a lot. After the recordings for the last episode, many members of the cast and staff joined as well. Productions like this one that brought so many people together are rare nowadays. This too must have been because we were working on SoreMachi.
Ishiguro: Thank you so much.
Shinbo: I would love to make a second season for SoreMachi. The more into the second half I were, the more I wanted a season two.
Ishiguro: That’s true (laughs). Lately, I already start to feel lonely. It’s more desolate everyday. Now that the script meeting are over, I won’t see Takayama-san and the other scriptwriters anymore… The recording sessions are over too and I won’t see the voice actors and Director Toshiki Kameyama either… There a lot of people I won’t meet anymore. Normally, when I work on manga, I’m alone, and getting used to work with so many people around makes me feel even lonelier. Well, that’s why I still meet with Director Shinbo so often (laughs).
Shinbo: Working on the same project like this certainly builds up a sense of solidarity. Like a particular atmosphere that creates only in that occasion. Especially with SoreMachi the atmosphere was great, the mood with the whole staff was good. I would love to have fun for some more time.
Ishiguro: Precisely, I feel the same way.
Shinbo: When I was still a student, the professor’s house was a temple, and one year during summer break I stayed there overnight with classmates. The next day, when everyone had to go back home, it was so sad I still remember it to this day. When I finish working on a project, I always feel somewhat the same way as that day.
Ishiguro: That feeling, I totally understand it. I get reminded of my third year of high school. Since the instant I became a third year student at high school, I felt sad and lonely (laughs). I kept feeling lonely day after day and everyone was taken aback by it. But after we graduated, I received calls from friends telling me they finally understood how I felt, and that they wanted to meet up.
Shinbo: I too want to have more fun. There still are episodes from SoreMachi I want to adapt into anime, and there are things left undone in these 12 episodes too. I definitely would like to complete it. I surely hope there will be a second season.