Original interview from Animage (April 2024 issue), genga by Yoshihiko Matsumura
~ We crafted it together while figuring it out. ~
— I’ve heard from the members of the cast that they tried to feel more natural in their acting, how did you decide on this direction for their performance?
Saito: I didn’t specifically request for them to act in a more natural way; personally, I listened to what they proposed, and we crafted it while figuring it out. It wasn’t necessarily a direction I gave, but I remember saying something along the lines of “I don’t know who these words are gonna resonate with, so I want you to do it conscientiously”. Rather than having direct and powerful lines, I felt it was a work whose words could smoothly move you.
Hata: That’s right, the original work itself has a superb choice of words, so there was no need to exaggerate the acting to convey the message. I think that’s what the cast interpreted as “to act naturally”.
Saito: All the cast members were people with great sensitivity, so I was the one to learn a lot from them.
— I would like to ask you about what you particularly paid attention to when directing the main characters. Let’s start with Frieren.
Saito: Frieren isn’t a very expressive character, and her lines too are rather abrupt most of the times; I think that’s because she doesn’t want to give off a bad impression and just wants to be liked. So I told (Atsumi) Tanezaki-san that Frieren conveys more human warmth through her mild voice than her facial expressions.
Hata: Because of Frieren’s personality, and the fact that, being an elf, she lives much longer than humans, I thought she would end up sounding detached and cold. But she was well conscious of the balance in her output, despite her expression being a poker face all the time she does have emotions, she wants to express them but she’s certainly not a character that puts lots of effort in talking.
— How about Fern? I think she’s a character who carries human potential and possibilities on her shoulders.
Hata: Stark is like that too, but Fern lives with the human perception of time and is present in the show since she was little, so, while casting, we looked for someone who could express her growth in a realistic way. I had the impression that (Kana) Ichinose-san’s cool and determined voice was really in sync with Fern.
Saito: I’ve worked with Ichinose-san several times, and I believed she could really fit into Fern’s character. To Ichinose-san and (Chiaki) Kobayashi-san, who plays the role of Stark, I didn’t give any direction on how to craft their characters.
Hata: During the recording, Kobayashi-kun payed attention to Tanezaki-san and Ichinose-san’s performances as he acted, and thanks to that, I feel that the balance between the three of them was really good.
Saito: He himself said that as they started recording he could feel that the right atmosphere between Frieren and Fern was already present in the recording room. I think Stark too has a caring side, or rather, he’s good at reading the room, so they too were a good match.
— What did you pay particular attention to when directing Himmel, who appears in almost every flashback scene?
Saito: Himmel is not only cool, but also an interesting and approachable person, and that’s how I wanted to depict him, representing these characteristics of him.
Hata: To Frieren, her journey with Himmel’s party is the basis of her current journey understanding humans. In a sense, Himmel is the representation of humanity. Most of the times when he appears in Frieren’s memories, he doesn’t look like a hero or a savior, but rather, he feels human. If one’s heroism can been switched “on” and “off”, she remembers only the times when Himmel’s was “off”. That’s why we asked (Nobuhiko) Okamoto-san to soften his acting a little.
— It is true that when Frieren recalls Himmel, it’s often in mundane and everyday contexts.
Hata: There are some scene where he’s actually actively working, like fighting demons (laughs). However, Frieren is currently becoming aware and realizing the meaning of all her interactions with Himmel when he was “off”; I think this is a key aspect of this work.
Saito: Also, I think Himmel’s vanity for his handsomeness is a complex feeling, on one hand, it’s something that he lets out because he’s aware of his position as a hero, and on the other, he’s also saving himself by doing do.
— You mean that he’s saving his actual self?
Saito: Himmel himself said something similar to this, living an honest life and helping others is something that will return back to you and connect you with the future; I think this is what he really feels and holds on to. Then there’s also the part of him that just wants to look cool in Frieren’s eyes (laughs). But I believe that’s just his way of showing himself in public, and not some mere narcissism. He clearly understands that his and Frieren’s perceptions of time are different, and there’s a hint of sadness in him as well; I think he’s a character that can’t be taken too naively.
— In the currently airing “First-Class Mage Exam Arc” a lot of new characters have made their appearance.
Hata: I think that in the Exam Arc there are a lot of characters that stand out for their symbolic meaning, but as the story progresses, it becomes clear how every one of them is carrying their own life on their shoulders. I wanted to carefully portray these characters in a way they won’t just end up standing out for being flashy or funny.
Saito: They appeared all at once, so at first I had a hard time grasping all the characters; there are also some of them who play an active role in episodes beyond what this anime will cover, and the more you dig into it, the more flavors you get out of them. It was fun thinking of how to depict the way they act now, taking into account their future developments.
Hata: All the cast members actively looked deeply into their roles, and I feel they really got into their characters.
Saito: There weren’t many characters we had trouble casting for, it went quite smoothly. Kanne is the type of character (Azumi) Waki-san is known to be good at, so I didn’t have to give her that many directions for her dubbing. (Sayumi) Suzushiro-san usually acts the roles of lively characters, but on the contrary, I thought she was a good fit for Lawine. Lawine’s cynicism is kind of defiant, or rather, she gives off the impression she’s like a child being a little too hard on herself. I thought Suzushiro-san might be able to bring out Lawine’s bold front.
Hata: When it comes to casting, I believe Series was the most difficult one.
Saito: It was rather troublesome.
Hata: Serie is a character full of mysteries even in the original work, you know. It’s that type of character you even wonder whether it’s male or female, or neither of the two. We couldn’t quite figure out who Series was, so it was a difficult character.
— What was the deciding factor in casting Mariya Ise-san?
Saito: While we were looking for candidates for the role of Serie, Hata-san proposed the name of Ise-san.
Hata: Among the staff members everyone had their own ideas, we couldn’t agree even on the type of voice. We didn’t know what kind of person Serie was, but on the contrary, that meant she could have become any kind of person from that point on; that’s why I thought Ise-san might be a good fit.
Saito: It’s the same for Frieren, elves as characters have an aloof side to them, but also are a bit inattentive, it feels like they do have a weak spot somewhere. Serie too is by no means flawless, there’s a cute side to her too. I believe Ise-san’s acting is the perfect for that compromise.
~ It’s a show with some not-so-realistic breaks in it. ~
— I think the comedy in this work is also impressive, it makes you giggle, and the more lively gags are exquisite too. Are there any aspects in this regard you particularly focused on when directing?
Saito: Hmm, I wonder… (laughs). It’s hard to put into words, but it’s not like I consciously tried to make it funny, it’s intrinsically amusing and that’s what I tried to do. Also, when I’m directing comedic scenes, I always think of my sister, or rather, I always feel that “if it makes my family laugh, then it is funny”.
Hata: Generally speaking, I believe the behaviors of characters in this work are very conscientiously thought, and they feel real. The comical scenes too are not symbolical, and don’t disrupt the natural flow of the play. It’s not like we intentionally hold back with the direction to make it funny in the little details, but it feels like that’s what happened as a result.
Saito: There are scene where we made Stark raise his voice to make the gag stick out, but fundamentally it’s funny because everyone is so worked up. I think what makes the gags funny is that the earnest feeling behind them usually results in unexpected outcomes.
— But that time in Episode 3 when Fern says “Gulp” out loud was a direction you gave on set, wasn’t it.
Hata: Yeah (laughs).
Saito: Well, it was sort of a gamble. I didn’t know whether it was fun or not, but I wanted to do it. Frieren [the show t.n.] could have been made in a more realistic way perhaps, but I wanted to make it a work with some breaks in it. I wanted to show the audience a work where you could hear “Gulp” said out loud.
— I heard that the soundtrack for the first four episodes that aired as the 2 hours special and for some of the other episodes as well, was composed in film scoring [composed while watching the footage t.n.] to match the images on screen.
Hata: That’s right. For the whole first special episode, I had the soundtrack composed in film scoring, and after that, as an extra, I had it done that same way for some other crucial scenes too. As a result, the soundtracks for the final stages of Episode 8, the scene of Himmel’s ring in Episode 14 and the dance scene in Episode 15 were all composed that way (laughs).
Saito: (Laughs). In Episode 8, Frieren, Fern and Stark take action separately, so, in order to reach the climax, I had them composing a pretty long track.
Hata: I asked to arrange it in a way that, when it changes tracks adapting to the scenes and dialogue lines, it would feel like one big flow.
Saito: For Episode 14, we were thinking of making it play along the flashback between Frieren and Himmel, but then I decided to build up the climax from the moment Frieren goes up into the sky, so that’s where the soundtrack starts playing.
Hata: For the dance scene in Episode 15, I didn’t want a usual ball-like track; I wanted to depict the sense of distance between Fern and Stark. Considering all these subtle and complex adjustments we requested for, (Call) Evan-san was the right person for the job. Even for the initial film scoring, he did a great job of depicting Frieren’s slight change in mood and Fern’s body temperature changing.
— Is there any track composed in film scoring for the “First-Class Mage Exam Arc” as well?
Saito: No. In the second cour the drama has more continuity to it, so instead of using film scoring to make a single episode memorable, I chose to use single tracks in order to convey the flow of the story.
Hata: In the Exam Arc, a lot of mages make their appearance and battles are more frequent, but that’s not what I wanted to emphasize, in fact, I thought of it in a way not to make it too catchy. Even in the first cour there were some bloody episodes and battles with demons. What I wanted to focus on was the story of Frieren, Fern and Stark’s journey, or that of Frieren becoming more caring of humans.
— I see. Then, what aspects did you consider when selecting the tracks?
Hata: The emphasis on following the scenes’ mood and feel might have been a little different from what you see in other works. I think Evan-san’s speciality is writing songs that are able to touch people’s heartstrings, so this time too I asked him to write tracks to fit not what was happening, but rather the emotions and feelings of the scenes. Even from Episode 5 on, I chose the tracks that were in sync with the emotions I felt. and used the same track for the other scenes that made me feel the same way.
~ Direction techniques not to depict emotions in a tasteless way. ~
— Anime original scenes, like the cut in Episode 1 when Frieren looks at her ring during Himmel’s funeral, or in Episode 14’s when Frieren makes a surprised expression when Himmel kneels, have become hot topics.
Saito: There are a lot of elements scattered throughout the original work, and all these points are often connected in a line. And in the anime adaptation as well, I wanted to convey the feeling of these points being connected, I wanted to make it so that not only were the episodes enjoyable one by one, but the series as a whole formed one single story. Adding the ring cut in Episode 1 was also meant to hint at the development in Episode 14.
— This was already brought up in the cast interview, but by paralleling the key visual for the first cour to the cover of the first volume of the original work, I had the impression that making Himmel look towards Frieren in the KV depicted his feelings for her in an even more powerful way.
Saito: Rather than making it feel more powerful, the idea was to make it more “noticeable”. Personally, I think that anime, unlike manga, is fundamentally more fleeting, it’s a one-shot deal. Unlike manga, that you can read at your own pace and re-read over and over, I believe that with anime, that cannot be watched at one’s own pace, the opportunities to go back and watch it again aren’t that many. That’s why, while making it, I wanted to include things that would catch people’s attention and stick out to them when they watch it. The design of the KV too is one of these things.
— The sound of the bells when Himmel puts the ring on Frieren in Episode 14 was impactful as well.
Saito: That was an idea of Episode 14’s episode director and storyboard artist (Shinya) Iino-san.
— What was the intention behind it?
Saito: It’s just the chime of the city’s time signal, so I think the interpretation is up to the viewer. This is something that Hata-san has mentioned but, there aren’t many words that hint at romantic elements in this work to begin with.
Hata: I noticed this while reading the original work, but the kanji for “love” is never used even once. The same goes for expressions like “I love…” [in a romantic sense t.n.].
Saito: Just the time they explain that the meaning of the mirrored lotus in the flower language is “eternal love”, and that’s about it.
Hata: That’s right. Personally, I hope it’s because there’s something planned for the future in relation to that.
Saito: Therfore, whether or not Himmel has romantic feelings for Frieren is, after all, up to interpretation. For the scene where he gives her the ring, I focused on what was happening rather than the emotional side of it. To expose those feelings in the anime adaptation seemed tasteless.
Hata: The original work isn’t concluded yet, it’s still in the process of building things up. Considering Frieren is the main character, the story may go on many hundreds of years in the future. I believe the contrast between the different perceptions of time of elves and humans too is an interesting aspect of the original work, so, as I was getting involved in this work, I internalized an elf-like perception of time and might have slowed down the tempo a bit in some parts.
— In a scene in Episode 17, whereas in the original work Stark carries Fern on his shoulders, he carries her in his arms instead, why was it changed that way?
Saito: That was because Stark carries his axe on his back, so… (laughs).
Hata: (Laughs).
— So, it wasn’t a depiction of Stark’s growth or something like that (laughs).
Saito: I just thought Stark would do it that way, I didn’t mean to add any particular meaning to it. Well, it’s more gentlemanlike of him to carry her that way, isn’t it (laughs).
— Also, it’s a minor detail, but I think in the anime, the farewells convey more a feeling of gratitude.
Saito: Like at the end of Episodes 11 and 17, right? I made those scenes focusing on the flow of the emotions, not for the sake of drama. Besides, in Frieren, encounters and farewells with people are something that’s constantly being depicted. I think that in a sense, it’s right, or rather natural, to end things with a farewell.
— Lastly, a massage to all the readers that are supporting the anime?
Hata: This work has a lot of static and dynamic parts, and it feels like the words and lines are chosen very carefully. I think that lines that become cues to notice something, or subtle changes in facial expressions, or the drama where, at first glance, nothing seems to be happening, but underneath, the emotions are moving greatly, are the fascinating and appealing aspects of this work. I believe we were able to gain this much support thanks to the viewers carefully paying attention and not overlooking all this.
Saito: In the original work, you can understand and notice new things as you re-read it, so as the creator of the anime, there are several things I’m really glad I haven’t failed to notice. I was quite nervous that if I was missing something, it would have been some serious trouble (laughs).
Hata: (Laughs). There are some scenes where the lines can be conveyed properly without necessarily playing a track in the background. Also, another feature of this work is its loose and relaxed portrayal of the passage of time, and I think that too is an aspect people will enjoy.
Saito: Earlier I mentioned the connections between past and present in this series, and Fern’s growth being one instance of these. Up until now, Frieren has passed many things on to Fern, but the climax shows Fern achieving something by herself. I put effort into it, and hope it will be an emotional ending for those who have watched over Fern since her childhood. I’d be really happy if you payed attention to what Fern has gained as she grew.
SHINSEIKI 